Re: Divide is too deep for immigration reform

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:13:13 -0800, El Castor
<anyonethere@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Rita <nitany_98@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:46:05 -0800, El Castor
<anyonethere@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Gary James <gnjames43@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:36:40 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:19:41 -0500, "Jim Higgins" <gordian238@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Divide is too deep for immigration reform
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0313/p17s01-cogn.html

--


Slavery has come back into style.
With a "twist" : The process is being
subsidized by the tax payer.

Well put. But what bothers me is that most of these criminals are
paid over minimum wage. That is a puzzler, is it not ?

No, it's not a puzzler. It's because the minimum wage is a cruel hoax.
A "minimum wage" is set by the free market. If we had no minimum wage
those illegals would be paid just what they are being paid now --
because in most areas (like the one in which I live) competition
pushes the lowest wages up higher (here -- much higher) than the legal
minimum wage. Employers compete for their services and pay them what
they are worth -- which happens to be more than some lazy unskilled
White (or Black) teenager who thinks the world owes him a living.

So what happens when you jack up the minimum wage above levels set by
the free market? Unemployment.

So how
many ways do the wealthy profit from the illegals if they pay them
more than they would have to pay local people ? I think
understanding that is the key to getting the average
American up in arms in favor of "wetback roundup 2". .

Gary, I support controlling our borders (which liberal politicians do
not), but I am not so stupid as to believe those Mexicans are here to
benefit the "wealthy". Practically every roof in California get's put
on or repaired by skilled, hard working, Mexican labor. Who would do
it? My lazy White nephew who at age 20 is still a college freshman
while he diddles around and decides what he wants to do -- get an
education, play computer games with his friends, or screw his girl
friend. Sure he would do it -- but at a price that would get him to
climb a ladder. Do you think everyone who needs a new roof is
"wealthy"? Economists have studied this issue and concluded that every
American benefits -- except that lazy nephew of mine who has to
compete with the Mexican work ethic. Rita's rent is lower because her
landlord can hire cheap, reliable, skilled Mexican labor to fix the
roof, paint the building, and tend the garden. Everyone, even
retirees, pays lower prices when they go out to eat, because Jose is
back there in the kitchen chopping like a madman. Because the
restaurant owner can get cheap reliable help that allows him to keep
his prices down, more people eat in his restaurant and that encourages
him to open a second place -- creating more jobs -- which is one of
the reasons why we are more prosperous than Europe -- we don't let
people like you mess with the economy. (-8

I have no problem with Mexican labor. It is like you say, Jeff. They
do work Americans don't choose to do.

I didn't mean to say that Americans won't do the work that Mexicans
do. They would, for a price, but they probably wouldn't do it as well.

That is nonsense.
What I don't believe is that Mexicans somehow steal jobs from
Americans.
Of course they do and by undercutting wages they lower the standard of
living for all workers.
It's not as if there are a finite number of jobs to go
around, and undeserving Mexicans swoop in and snap them up.

But there is a finite number of jobs at any given time.

If houses
can be built for less because highly competent Mexican craftsmen are
on the job, then more houses get built, creating jobs for architects,
realtors, lumbermen, mill workers, shingle manufacturers, plumbers,
electricians, etc.
IT's as plain as the nose on your face that if an illegal will roof
the houses for 1/2 the price it puts downward pressure on the wages of
ALL roofers and all other craftsmen. Roofers will have a harder time
buying a house and the Illegals will never make enough to buy the.
Trickle down economics, AKA VOODOO economics are a failure.
Thumper


There are some people who lose -- the ones who
compete directly with those Mexicans for a job, but other jobs are
created,
wrong.

and the bulk of society is actually better off.

Bull***

Awhile back I
posted a study by an economist who attempted to quantify the impact on
wages which stemmed from Mexican immigration, and for most Americans
it was very positive. For some it was not.


Voodoo economics.
Thumper
They moved into New Orleans
to do the extremely nasty clean up jobs -- which would not have been
done without them. How many American unemployed are willing to
get on their hands and knees and clip bushes and dig in the dirt?
Gary appears to think Mexicans are somehow dangerous. My
neighborhood is kept neat and tidy because of Mexicans. If they
really were taking away jobs American unemployed line up to apply
for, I'd no doubt feel differently. I do not like to see skilled jobs
that Americans hold disappear and go overseas. That is another
issue, in my opinion.

One of my daughter in laws has lived in many parts of the U.S. as
for many years my son's job took them to open new markets for
his company. In each place she has hired housekeepers, which is
what she calls cleaning help out of respect for their dignity. And
they always have been immigrants -- whether legal or not I don't
know but they were the only ones doing such work.

There are always going to be criminals in any immigrant group, and
Mexico is capable of producing some that would scare Al Capone, but I
have to admit that I like Mexicans. They work hard, take care of their
families, and seem to be uniformly cheerful and gregarious -- actually
happy to be pruning a bush, busing a table, or hanging drywall -- and
for the most part they do it very well. A few months ago my wife and I
were at Toys R'Us looking for an easel for the daughter of a niece.
The gringos on the staff could hardly be bothered. I waited while they
pondered the computer, and my wife wandered around. She ran into a
Mexican stock clerk who was obviously the lowest of the low on the
employee totem pole. He asked her in broken English if he could help,
and before she knew it he was showing her two different easels on the
floor and dragging a third out of a back room. He carried one back to
the front desk where they were explaining to me that they had nothing.
(-8

I do think, though, that we have an obligation to control our borders,
and insure that English remains the language of the United States. We
should be able to do that and still admit a lot of Mexicans,
Brazilians, etc.

"The moonbats bark thrice at midnight."

.