Re: Magazine: Hybrids don't save money
- From: Rumpelstiltskin <PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:34:36 GMT
On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:50:22 -0800, El Castor
<anyonethere@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
jimstevens <jimstevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:11:48 -0800, El Castor
<anyonethere@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
jimstevens <jimstevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:30:24 -0800, El Castor
<anyonethere@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
What do you think low mileage driving would do to the considerations.
Sordo <sordo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Speaking ONLY of the California 2006 Prius, I disagree -- at least to
the extent that the car is an interesting buy, with or without savings
from gas consumption, and the financial end isn't all that
unfavorable.
Magazine: Hybrids don't save money
By Matt Nauman
Mercury News
If you're thinking of buying a hybrid vehicle to save money, you won't
-- ever -- said Consumer Reports magazine.
In its April auto issue, due on newsstands Tuesday, the magazine said
the six most popular gasoline-electric hybrids will end up costing
owners from $3,700 to $13,300 more over five years compared with similar
gasoline models. Much of that comes from the higher purchase price of
hybrids vs. non-hybrids, but they also will lose more of their value,
the report said.
1. Tax Credit: At the moment (it will dry up later in the year) Prius
buyers get a tax credit (not deduction -- credit) of (I believe)
$3,150. If the car is bought at or below MSRP, that brings the price
into a more reasonable range.
2. Maintenance: The only maintenance for the first 150,000 miles is
oil changes at 5K intervals, occasional air filter changes, a short
list of things to check -- like fluid levels, and tire
rotation/replacement. Sparkplug replacement is governed by clean air
regulations, and in California and some other states, is at 150,000
miles -- which is the extent of a tuneup -- replacement of 4 plugs at
150K! In the rest of the country it's 120,000 miles. The transmission
is sealed and the fluid is never replaced! The engine uses a timing
chain, so no $600 - $1,000 timing belt major tuneup every 60K.
3. Brake Jobs: The Prius recaptures energy when it slows -- taking the
load off the brakes. Typically brake jobs are around 100,000 miles.
4. Smog Inspection: This is an expensive pain in California, but the
Prius is exempt. At least for now, no inspections, ever.
5. Battery Replacement: In California the hybrid system (including
batteries) is required to be guaranteed for 10 years or 150K miles. If
the batteries (there is a bank of them) fail in less than ten years,
that's good -- free batteries! But ... they may be good for the useful
life of the car. Toyota introduced the Prius in Japan in 1997. As of
2005 they had not had to replace a single battery because it wore out
-- only for manufacturing defects.
The complexity of the vehicles, questions about battery life and
replacement cost and a lack of independent repair shops that will work
on hybrids all result in extra depreciation costs, said David Champion,
the magazine's senior director of automotive testing.
I typically keep a car for around 100K, at which time I sell it for
practically nothing, and by that I mean less than $3,000. If I sell a
Prius at 100K, where's the risk? If I drive it until the wheels fall
off, where's the risk?
``None of the six hybrids we have tested recovered its price premium in
the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership,'' said the magazine.
``Nor did any when the analysis was extended to 10 years and 150,000
miles.''
Rik Paul, the magazine's automotive editor, said the study took the
price of gas from $3 a gallon now to $4 a gallon five years from now.
``Still, the cost didn't add up,'' he said.
I don't agree with this either (as regards the Prius), but I'm not
going to take the time to refute it. I wouldn't own any hybrid other
than the Prius -- and yes, I do own one.
Here are some benefits of the 2006 Prius (Pkg 6) which is the most
technologically advanced car on the road.
1. Never again take your keys out of your pocket. Walk up to the car
and touch the door handle and it unlocks. Push a button on the dash
and it "starts" -- although typically you can drive off without the
internal combustion engine starting at all. And when the car is
stopped at a light or caught in traffic, it uses no gas at all --
which is why a guy escaping Houston before the hurricane was able to
drive his Prius more than 20 hours without refueling. In Japan, it
will even parallel park itself.
2. A high res color monitor that automatically displays what is behind
you when you back up, there is not one gauge on the dash -- it's all
digital, plays mp3 CD's like a charm and displays the name of the
tune, includes an input jack for an iPod in the center console,
continually displays the interaction of the batteries, engine, and
electric motor, as well as the current gas mileage and trip mileage
(very accurate), HID headlights, skid control, auto dimming rear view
mirror which includes a garage door opener which can be programmed
like 3 remotes, automatic tire pressure monitoring, and much more.
3. It's a foot shorter than a Lexus ES300, but has just as much
interior room, and more headroom. The hatch back is very roomy and has
more vertical space than the Lexus' trunk, and with the rear seats
folded down it's like a small SUV or station wagon.
4. The first time I drove it on a short 30 mile trip I got 50.1 mpg
(most owners average out at 45), and some have gotten 600 miles out of
a 12 gallon tank -- with a gallon (or so) remaining -- which is sort
of the holy grail of Prius owners.
I like it. I don't like the Ford Escape, and wouldn't buy one. The
only hybrid that comes close, as far as I'm concerned, is the Honda
Civic, and I wouldn't have one of those either. The Prius, other than
the too small Honda Insight, is the only Hybrid designed from the
ground up to be what it is -- a hybrid, and a very practical car
besides. The rest are little more than adaptations and conversions.
Oh yes, and for at least the next two years can drive in California
car pool lanes with one occupant.
And one more thing! In a recent survey of Prius owners, one-third were
right wingers!!
So there! (-8
Jeff
The costs and benefits of the Ford Escape, Honda Accord, Honda Civic,
Lexus RX 400h, Toyota Highlander and Toyota Prius hybrids were evaluated
by Consumer Reports.
Hybrids do provide strong fuel economy, emit less pollution and, in some
cases, give their owners tax breaks (which were taken into account by
the magazine) and access to carpool lanes and free parking spots, the
magazine noted.
It recommended five of the hybrids, but doesn't endorse the Ford Escape
SUV because two of its wheels left the pavement during its government
rollover test.
Contact Matt Nauman at mnauman@ mercurynews.com or (408) 920-5701.
"The moonbats bark thrice at midnight."
We drive less then 7000 miles with two vehicles. 99 Honda only has
25k on it for example.
The fewer miles you drive, the more difficult it becomes to justify a
hybrid. In your case, I don't think it would make much sense. Keep the
Honda. (-8
I suspect batteries would run down a lot as it does not get rechaged
by driving???
A 30 HP electric motor runs in tandem with the gas engine, and most of
the time it's either powering the car by itself, helping out the gas
engine, or acting as a generator to charge the batteries. Whenever you
take your foot off the gas or put on the brakes the batteries get
charged, and at times the gas engine will help out with the charging.
Keeping the main battery bank charged is not a problem, although it
never gets fully charged or fully discharged -- which has to do with
the longevity of the batteries.
There is also a 12v battery in the trunk. That's what powers the
keyless entry system which at this point I think is unique to the
Prius. It uses enough power that if you are going to leave the car for
more than 2 - 3 weeks you should switch off the entry system. If it's
off, there is a special key that slides out of the fob and can be used
on a key lock in the driver side door. Once in the car there is no
ignition switch -- an interior sensor detects the fob, and you turn on
the car by pushing a button. Usually the fob just stays in your
pocket, but if you get out of the car, leave the fob inside) and try
to lock it (by touching a black spot on the outside door handle) the
car beeps and refuses to lock, so you can't lock your keys in the car,
even if they're laying on the seat.
Jeff
"The moonbats bark thrice at midnight."
fob???
That's the remote used to lock and unlock the car at a distance. It
can be used that way, and also has the usual panic button to trigger
the horn, but normally you just leave it in your pocket and let the
car do it's thing. At night I can walk by the locked car, and without
touching anything, the interior lights come on. The car is just
sensing the presence of the fob. If I actually touched the inside of
the door handle, it would unlock. On the driver's side, only the
driver's door unlocks, but on the passenger side, they all do. If some
miscreant jumped into the just unlocked car and tried to start it, it
wouldn't, because an interior sensor has to find the fob. Just being
close enough to the outside of the car to touch the door handle is
good enough to unlock it, but not good enough to start it.
"The moonbats bark thrice at midnight."
It sounds easy to steal the car, if you lose your keys on the
beach, as I once did. A thief who found your keys could just
press the horn button in the parking lot to find your car while
you were out looking for a locksmith.
.
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