Re: 53-count indictment shows GOP's corruption -- GOP "steal lives of the poor war-profiteer for Big Oil" party, led by Bush Crime Family

But some of the facts are out already. Even if there is presumed
innocence, and we do not know all of the facts, there is enough to
know that there has been scores of Republicans who responded
enthusiastically to the bribes. Abramov is not claiming innocence, and
convictions aren't necessary to make a judgement. That's politics,
life, and the American way.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:23:08 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That would be a good start. A better one is not to prejudge someone until
they have been accused of a crime, tried and found guilty or innocent...

"Alvin Toda" <aet@> wrote in message
news:jjlpv1h98dc5otqtc5iuhr9t109sah3mtm@xxxxxxxxxx
Oh, I really believe myself. It's the only way to have a fair trial.
But I realise that in real life, you do have to make judgements
without all the information. But I do keep an open mind for new
information that may come up. Perhaps you refer to this? An open mind?

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:23:17 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Really believing in the concept that a person is innocent until proven
guilty? I for one try my best to believe that a person is innocent until
proven guilty, unless I see enough evidence to say that they are or are
not
guilty....before a trial is held to determine their innocence or guilt....

"Alvin Toda" <aet@> wrote in message
news:24vmv11akakp0t268l6rlh8qp29fs2vc0p@xxxxxxxxxx
I think that my question goes back to the one about what do you mean
by "believing in it"? You never answered the question but said it's
obvious.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:26:50 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The idea that a person is innocent until proven guilty.... You really
did
not have to ask the question if you had kept up with what we said....

"Alvin Toda" <aet@> wrote in message
news:tvsjv15g1as7u761ksp6egnoavd0vbll0q@xxxxxxxxxx
What's not obvious?

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:33:46 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That was not obvious from what you said..

"Alvin Toda" <aet@> wrote in message
news:7ohhv1len07hsshjeonfoetksjgf3hd9a5@xxxxxxxxxx
Of course, we all believe in this concept of justice. But mostly all
of us don't follow that in our daily lives. What do you mean?

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:28:40 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

No, it is a concept that all of us should believe in, not just those
who
sit
on the jury....

"Alvin Toda" <aet@> wrote in message
news:pj0fv1la6jd2oj71fq8u47dbfep5omr0or@xxxxxxxxxx
That's if you sit on the jury at the trial. Most of us go through
life
having to make good judgements with what information that we can
get.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:52:48 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You obviously do not believe in the concept that a person is
innocent
until
proven guilty. Or do you just apply that concept for those who
you
think
are innocent of the crime, before a trial makes that
determination?

"Alvin Toda" <aet@> wrote in message
news:qpacv1dp0pqqhk2lqlq3qd4enu5f91iklv@xxxxxxxxxx
It proves that Republicans have been in power too long. They are
easily corrupted. This is probably the tip of the iceberg.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:53:19 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

What does that prove? That he may be guilty of the crimes he
was
charged
with committing, or that he "may not" have been guilty of the
crimes
he
was
accused of committing? Let me see. Do we read from time to
time
where
someone has been convicted of a crime, and after the are in jail
(some
for
an awful long time), we find that they were never guilty of the
crime
they
were convicted on?

"robin hood zorrro" <robinhoodzorrro@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message
news:1140090929.854989.183940@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ohio Gov. Bob Taft last summer was convicted on misdemeanor
criminal
charges for failing to report gifts on his ethics forms,
including
some
from Mr. Noe.

Two of Mr. Taft's former aides have been convicted on similar
charges,
and two more were charged last week.

Other elite fund-raisers have been under investigation.

Brent Wilkes, a defense consultant, is connected to U.S. Rep.
Randy
"Duke" Cunningham's (R., Calif.) bribery scandal.

From The Toledo Blade, 2/14/06:
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060214/NEWS09/602140373

By STEVE EDER
BLADE STAFF WRITER

The 53-count indictment against the former GOP fund-raiser
comes
on
the
heels of the guilty plea entered last month by lobbyist Jack
Abramoff,
who is at the center of a wide-reaching corruption scandal in
Washington.

Both Mr. Noe and Mr. Abramoff share the elite status of Bush
"Pioneers"
because they raised at least $100,000 for the President's
re-election
campaign in 2004.

Mr. Bush has returned $4,000 in campaign contributions from
Mr.
Noe
and
his wife, as well as $6,000 from Mr. Abramoff, his wife, and a
client,
but he has not returned the money the men raised for his
re-election
campaign.

Yesterday, the DNC reiterated its call for Mr. Bush to return
money
raised by Mr. Noe and other "indicted fund-raisers."

"Tom Noe stole millions from Ohio workers and used it to help
elect
a
governor who became the first convicted criminal to lead Ohio
and
a
President whose administration is even more corrupt than
Richard
Nixon's," said Damien LaVera, a spokesman for the DNC.

After Mr. Noe was indicted on separate federal charges in
October
on
accusations he laundered $45,400 in Mr. Bush's re-election
campaign,
an
RNC spokesman said his organization already returned money
from
Mr.
Noe
and his wife, and "will take other appropriate actions if the
situation
warrants it."

__________________________________________________________

It's endless.

Harry
(see all of Harry Hope's excellent posts as they break, put
this
link
in your browser, use it, this is a search on google groups, on
the
author Harry Hope sorted by date... nothing fancy):
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&start=0&scoring=d&enc_author=-nIhFBQAAACtBOUGAhN9cSve8yYdFJBuOPANdqfI6prRsqjc7uCt1A&;








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