Re: 'Tookie' Williams

El Castor <justuschickens@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:0fspp15vcacqnl75p3ipfbncnv3h8nvhdk@xxxxxxx:

> Rita <nitany_98@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:54:37 -0800, El Castor
>><justuschickens@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>You have to understand that in the Navy, the brig is, or
>>>should be, an advanced course in military discipline. If I
>>>succeeded in encouraging an attitude shift in only ten
>>>percent, it was a worthwhile endeavor. Most, I suspect,
>>>were a lost cause. And, by the way, for those who couldn't
>>>follow the rules and repeatedly disobeyed guards, there was
>>>solitary confinement on diminished rations. I'll spare you
>>>a couple of those stories, but suffice it to say it was
>>>sometimes a contest of wills. (-8
>>>
>>Yes, I figured most in your brig were just bad actors but
>>not hardened criminals.
>>
>>The thing is that we are a nation of rule by law -- even in
>>the military which has its share of laws -- and when someone
>>is sentenced to a jail term that is the punishment set forth
>>by the law, not the added refinements some prison personnel
>>like to add to make the punishment more severe.
>>
>>When prison personnel take it upon themselves to enhance the
>>punishment, then we are on a slippery slope that leads to
>>Abu Graraib and other horror stories -- the fact that it
>>does not in most cases does not mean it cannot.
>>
>>Actually this kind of treatment no doubt hardens the
>>miscreant in his ways as i have never heard that tough
>>treatment in prisons does anything but make the inmate more
>>angry, resentful and likely to offend again.
>>
>>And taking pleasure in the suffering of others, even on a
>>minor scale, really does nothing for the person who gloats
>>about this. It diminishes you as a human and one should be
>>able to find many sources of satisfaction in life other than
>>causing other people pain, however minor that may be.
>>
>>But we seem to have some hardened folks in this group --
>>Boyd wants prisoners to suffer because he feels they get
>>more than he did in the military, Connie wants to execute
>>them all because they cost the tax payers money.
>>
>>And you apparently felt the treatment of prisoners in your
>>brig was too "soft" and chose to fiddle with it to make them
>>more uncomfortable. In other words, you set yourself up as
>>the arbitrator of the conditions so long as you could get by
>>with it.
>>
> Sorry Rita, but I think you doth protest too much. Last time
> I checked, there was nothing in the UCMJ that required that
> prisoners must possess matches, watch Hollywood films, or
> have their laundry done for them. No one in my brig wore a
> hood, stood on one foot, was forced to walk around naked,
> received corporal punishment, or was harmed in the slightest
> way. You know why? Because I would never have permitted it
> -- nor would the Marine guards that worked for me have
> engaged in that kind of crap. Sadly, you on the other hand,
> are a perfect example of why a liberal should never be
> president of the United States. A living example of the
> decay of civilization. The decline and fall of the West all
> rolled into one woman. )-8
>
>

Sorry Jeff, I have to agree (gag) with Rita. Your attitude was
one that the Navy tried repeatedly to eliminate among those
place in temporary control.

Traditionally the job of Warden for a brig was assigned to an
officer who was on the way out. An Lt before discharge or long
service mustang warrant/LCdr as a last easy post.

As such there was a tendency to make things harder, an "I took
it, why can't you" attitude.

The UCMJ and the controlling court interpretations have strongly
opposed the "extras" that frequently are added by individuals
with a sadist complex. Your views fit in fine with those of the
sheriff in Maricopa County (Phoenix) who liked to put prisoners
in pink uniforms and house them in tents in the Arizona desert.
Nothing quite illegal, but purposeful humiliation/discomfort.
You may be interested to know that federal courts have ruled
that the little deprivations like you implimented constitute
"cruel and unusual punishment" (Justice Wayne Justice and TDC)

(and yes I know what I am talking about, my last few months were
filled with little tasks such as serving as prosecutor for MJ
cases, and as ass't warden. The junk assignments that are left
to those who are really of no long term use to the Navy. And one
of the most important things in the manuals was a reminder not
to exercise the "Tin God" reactions that tended to go with the
post.)
.

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