Re: Time to cut our dependence on and therefore our interest in the...

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 09:10:19 -0400, Alan Lichtenstein <arl@xxxxxxx>
wrote:

>Thumper wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:10:03 -0400, Alan Lichtenstein <arl@xxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>><<Reduce gas consumption. But the only way for the Government to
>>>>accomplish that is to restrict supplies.>>
>>>>
>>>>No, it's not the only, or even the easiest. They could just raise the
>>>>CAFE fleet mileage requirement instead.
>>>>
>>>><<the public refuses to forego their unnecessary SUV's.>>
>>>>
>>>>Actually, I saw a report on TV a few weeks ago where they said that
>>>>sales of new SUVs are sharply down, and have been for quite some time.
>>>>It was attributed to gas prices.
>>>
>>>Good news.
>>>
>>>
>>>>What is your opinion of the new generation of hybrid SUVs which are
>>>>just starting to appear on the market? For example the 4,000+lb Toyota
>>>>Highlander, which is listed at 28mpg on the highway and 33 in town.
>>>
>>>A good start.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I also wonder why nobody ever complains about the gas mileage of sports
>>>>cars, pickup trucks, large vans etc. Example - the tiny Mazda RX-8 has
>>>>the same mileage rating as the Jeep Grand Cherokee.
>>>
>>>Nobody complains about those vehicles,because they are so few in number
>>>in comparison to the total number of vehicles. So we can tolerate a
>>>little conspicuous consumption and the minor waste those vehicles
>>>produce, as the trade off for free choice. But we cannot conscience the
>>>continued wholesale waste of a resource by SUV's which 95% of people who
>>>purchase, DO NOT NEED.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> 95% of people buying a 3000 sq foot home do not NEED it either but you
>> conveniently ignore that excess.
>
>Possibly. What if they have a large family?
>
> You're a one note wonder about SUVs.
>
>No. I am not advocating that people give up driving. I am merely
>advocating that they drive a vehicle that does not waste a resource,
>especially when a standard personal transportation would serve their
>needs EXACTLY.
>
My point is that there are many things that people buy that waste
resources that they do not need. If you want to live a draconian
existence where others tell you what to buy, where to live and how to
act based on someone else's opinion of what you need, feel free to do
so but get off your pompous high horse and stop telling others that
they can only have what they need. That IS communism and un-American.
Thumper






>Big difference between your analogy and mine.
>
>> 95% of people don't need many things that they buy which consumes
>> large amount of resources but you attack SUVs.
>
>Many resources are not finite and many are renewable. I have no problem
>with use of those. I have a problem with SUV's wasting a non-renewable
>resource that is far closer to depletion than others, especially when
>95% of the people who purchase them could have their needs served
>EXACTLY by a standard vehicle and would NOT waste the resource.
>
>I have a problem with that, because our society is built on technology
>of oil, and when we run out, our society goes down the tubes. You, of
>all people should be advocating restrictions based on the greater need
>of society, instead of supporting the selfish, reactionary point of
>view of unbashed waste simply because one has the money and CAN.
>
>Tell us, Thumped, what about all the middle class and poor who will be
>priced out of driving because of this accelerated waste? Don't you care
>for them? Reactionaries don't. And you take their part.
>
> The government has
>> given the manufacturers a pass on mileage requirements for all cars
>> and SUVs are at the top of the list. If it makes you feel better to
>> turn yours in then do so. You're just pissing in the wind otherwise.
>
>I purchased my SUV in 2002, new. to date, I have put 15,238 miles on
>it, because I only use it for the purposes for which it was built. Can
>others who purchase those unneeded vehicles make the same claim? I
>doubt it.
>
>Tell us, Thumper, do YOU own an SUV? And do YOU use it for everyday
>driving? And why are you jealous of people who own houses? You can't
>make the same argument against me, because I own an SUV, but unlike the
>vast self-indulgent masses, I use the vehicle ONLY for the purpose for
>which it was intended. I do NOT use it as substitute for a standard
>personal transportation vehicle and waste gas because of that.
>
>THAT'S why I can take this position. I practice what I preach. And
>that just gets to both you and js, doesn't it? And if gas were rationed
>tomorrow, I'd have no problem with it. I own standard vehicles which
>get decent mileage, and I won't have to curtail my driving habits, like
>the other self-indulgent wastrels will. And I'll still be able to drive
>on the beach and tow my boat. Maybe a few times less, but that's the
>price we pay for forced constraint. And that won't be a bad thing.
>
> Alan

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