Re: Time to cut our dependence on and therefore our interest in the...


"Alan Lichtenstein" <arl@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Lv-dnXWDJq6KoZveRVn-tw@xxxxxxxxxx
> Jerry Okamura wrote:
>

>>>
>>
>> Nice sentiments, but just about impossible to achieve it seems to me,
>> i.e. pursuing our freedom which does not impinge on someone else's
>> pursuit of their freedom.
>
> Hardly, Jerry. We have laws which restrict unabashed exercise of freedom
> due to the assertion. Have you not heard of laws preventing assault,
> robbery, harassment, etc., all of which prevent one from exercising his
> personal freedom to the detriment of others. And in that vein, let us not
> forget the recent Patriot Act. Obviously, you have heard the clichÈ that
> your right to exercise your freedom ends at my nose.

isn't that what I just said?

>
> Now what do you think that means?
>
> And have you not heard of rationing, so prevalent in WWII? If the wealthy
> want to purchase their SUV's because it is their freedom to do so, why let
> them. They just won't be able to fill up their tank whenever they want,
> because the common good will have oil available for all.

That sort of depends on what you define as weathly it seems to me. I see a
whole lot of people, who I would not consider as wealthy driving around in
not only SUV's but pickup trucks (and some of those are monsters), and I
would be willing the bet not all of them are wealthy.
>
> As for who we "allow" to utilize a limited resource such as
>> oil, it seems to me that includes all of us who use that oil, not only
>> those who sell that oil.
>
> Exactly, Jerry. Do you think that some should be allowed to waste that
> resource to the detriment of all simply because they can, crying freedom
> of choice?

yes. We waste all kinds of resources. Some of them, like oil obvously have
some limits in supply. So, are you suggesting that we should not allow
anyone to waste any resource to the potential detriment of all? Besides, as
I have argued many times before, this is all a phony argument as far as I am
concerned. If the demand for oil exceeds the supply of oil, then the price
of oil will start to rise. At some point, people will first decide that
they do not want to spend their money on gasoline, and will start to make
other choices for their transporation needs. And since some are arguing
that we will run out of oil, then unless there is an alternative, the whole
economy collapses. But before that happens, the price of the stuff will
continue to rise, and more and more alternatives to using oil will take its
place.
>
> For that matter, if there were not people who are
>> willing to buy that oil, then there would not be people who produce and
>> sell the oil. As for the SUV argument, that also seems to me to apply to
>> a whole bunch of things we use. For example, since all of us are retired
>> on this newsgroup, do we all really need to have spent our earths
>> valuable resources, using the very computer we are now using? Think
>> about what raw materials that were used in the construction of this
>> "toy"? How about the electericity that is consumed while we are using
>> this "toy"? And this toy only lasts a couple of years before it is
>> replaced, either because it does not work well anymore, or because we
>> want something that is a little faster....wasting valuable resources
>> perhaps? You should come to my house and take a look in my
>> garage....quite an accumulation of old computers, displays and other
>> computer stuff that no longer works. Do you travel? How much "limited"
>> resources does that require? If no one travelled for pleasure, how much
>> resources would we save?
>
> Your example is ill placed because there is not the waste of finite
> resources. An SUV uses far more gasoline than standard vehicles, and if
> the owner has no use for the characteristics of the vehicle which require
> that use, then the owner is a wasteful inconsiderate.
>
No more so, then you and I using the very computer we are communicating
right now on.


.

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  • Re: Time to cut our dependence on and therefore our interest in the...
    ... i.e. pursuing our freedom which does not impinge on someone else's pursuit of their freedom. ... They just won't be able to fill up their tank whenever they want, because the common good will have oil available for all. ... Wasting finite resources is a crime and should be treated as such. ... public transportation cannot support the lifestyle we have chosen for ourselves and is impractical to do so. ...
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