Re: Time to cut our dependence on and therefore our interest in the...

Jerry Okamura wrote:
"Rita" <nitany_98@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:uv5cg1hpgph3p59hgmqs5rc1a0qrulhrf7@xxxxxxxxxx

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:29:51 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Now it has been a very long time since I have been to New York city, but I
seem to recall that the traffic in the city, inspite of all that extensive
mass transit system and inspite of the lack of parking, is a mess, if you
are unfortunate enough to be driving, so there must be a whole lot of people
who are using their cars to get around. 

Of course New York is different as are some other major metropolitan
areas.  I participate in a newsgroup on travel in the U.S. and Bostonians
warn visitors not to try to drive in the city.  Same for DC.  But these
areas are well served by public transport.


Boston is no different than New York City, both were designed and built up before the automobile came into existence. As for Washington D.C., though it has been many years since I was there, the public transportation system is no where near as extensive as it is in New York City.

Actually, Jerry, that's not quite right. New York opened its first subway in 1904. At that time, most of the population was confined to lower Manhattan and the downtown centers in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx. The automobile came into its own along with the construction of the NYC subway system. In fact, housing patterns were based on transit routes and can be identified as such to this day. Furthermore, when transit building ended( effectively in the 1930's, housing patterns were then based on the automobile, predominantly in Queens and Staten island, and can be identified as such to this day. Latter day urban transportation in NYC was based on the automobile, and still is to this day. In fact, the only new subway built by NYC from immediately prior to WWII and today, was the Rockaway Branch, despite plans for a massive expansion, if you discount the Archer Avenue Subway, which was really a replacement for the old jamaica el.

The Second Avenue subway, a desperately needed line was bonded twice and due to political machinations, the money was spend elsewhere and the subway still does not exist. Parts have been completed and present themselves as a curiosity for transit buffs when the authority permits tours of these spaces, which is not often.

There is a lot of traffic that is necessary to the city's operation.
Vans and trucks making deliveries to businesses, and the many Yellow
cabs.  When looks down many avenues in the city you can see yellow
predominating.  People do, of course, drive in the city but unless they
are lucky enough to have a place to park it isn't much fun or very
practical.


Yet, people still drive in the city don't they?

People drive to the city daily, because, even with gas at around $2.60 gallon, it is still cheaper to drive for a commute from the suburbs than to take public transportation, assuming, you can park for free, which Rita has already identified as a problem in some places in Manhattan. However, if you work in the outlying boroughs, you have no problem.

I am quite aware of conditions in the rest of the U.S.  But would people
use their cars less if they had a comparable public transport system?
They would probably still own cars but not use them to get to and from
work.  It seems impossible to me to live in most communities without a
car today.  But I am happy to live in one where a car is not at all
necessary.  If, for some reason, I am not up to getting on public
transport, I order a car service to take me.  The overall cost of using
one now and then and the cost of traveling on public transport is just
a tiny fraction of the costs of owning a car.

I just wonder how much experience you have in the subject matter. I use to take a bus to work from time to time. Where I lived, I had to drive to the bus stop, park my car in a shopping center parking lot (I am sure the owner of the shopping center did not appreciate that), the bus stop was a couple of miles from my home (the entire length of miles to work was around 15 miles). In order to take the bus, I had to arrive at the bus stop early, in case the darn bus arrived early, since the next bus would get me to work late, and if the bus did not arrive, then I had another hour wait, which meant I arrived at work late. Once I got on the bus, the bus ride took a little less than one hour (had I driven my car, especially at that early hour in the day...it would have taken me less than 30 minutes to get to work). In order to get home, I had to leave work a little after quitting time, because there was only two more buses that went to my area. If I missed both buses or they did not arrive, that meant I had to take a rather circuitous route back home....a very very long trip home. And when I took that bus, I was basically stuck at work, because I had no other means to getting around, and you certainly don't have the time to take the bus during your luch hour to go anywhere....not if you wanted to be at work on time. At one point, I even use to be in a van pool. Just about everyone in that van pool had their car stolen or broken into (I was one of the fortunate ones, but then again, I parked away from the pick up point (no sense being an inviting target).

Rita speaks from a frame of reference of an urban dweller. For all intents and purposes, for suburbanites, public transportation is not convenient or even cost effective, due to the geographic distribution and spaces of the suburbs. The population density of the suburbs is too low to make public transportation convenient and feasible for the population. Of course, the reverse is true for urban dwellers.

			Alan

.

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