Re: ELIZA

Yowie wrote:
"Marshall Price" <marshallprice@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7YadnUGb-uaZXkbXnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Yowie wrote:
Says she who tried for *2 years* to get David to answer 8 questions
regarding one aspect of Thiering's hypothesis.
You should have tried asking them one at a time.

Why?

Do you think that reasonable answers would have been been forthcoming if I'd asked one at a time?

I don't.

I don't because of the replies (not answers) already given. David said, even promised, to answer all questions asked of him. Then he said he'd answer 'but later'. Then he said he'd already answered. Then he said he wouldn't answer. Then he said he would answer, but later. Then he said he'd answered in a previous post to someone else. It kept going and going. At the point he said he wasn't going to answer and never had any intention to answer, I quit persuing the questions having reached exhaustion (and boredom and even sympathy). I have no doubt that if I kept persuing, I could have had another round (at least) of "will answer later, have already answered, not going to answer" (with perhaps a few links to places that didn't in any way address the question), but by that time, the point had long since been made: David invites questions, demands them even, but when those questions *he invited* and *promises to answer* come, he - for whatever reason - fails to answer them in any sort of reasonable way.

This has lead me to conclude that David *can't* answer most of the questions people raise, but something prevents him from admitting he doesn't know the answer and/or that the question has found a hole (no matter how small) in Thiering's theory. You yourself have just poked another bunch of holes in her theory in the message you just posted <PJSdnRH6ldCJIEbXnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, and her obvious ignorance regarding the properties of aloes that most of my questions related to is just another one.

My thoughts are that David's adherance to Thiering's theories is a type of fundamentalism, much like any other sort of person with fundamentalist beliefs and his reaction to those who don't see the 'brilliance' of Theiring as he does, who don't have the life changing reaction he did to her work as he did, and to those who can find the logical flaws in her work have much in common with the types of reactions fundamentalists (of any religion or indeed ideology) have to those who have not 'seen the light' of their particular belief system.

The psychological term for the typical reaction of 'fundamentalists' when their beliefs are challenged is cognitive dissonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

"True Believer Syndrome" would strike me as rare in Quakerism, as I understand Quakerism, anyway.


Yowie

Briefly, I think you're right about just about everything. I'm glad I missed (and skipped) most of the grief.

Furthermore, I'm glad you brought up the stuff about aloes, especially crushing them with wrists. (Wasn't there anybody else around who could crush them? After all, Simon Magus was a big shot! So was Jesus, especially in Qumran, right outside a large community of his friends. There was a lot at stake.) I can't explain it, and it does lead me to doubt, but not much. I can take it as something to be explained.

But the question about "star of David" was silly. Thiering mentions the "star of David" only in reference to its appearance in the Old Testament, where it obviously has nothing to do with the Jewish graphic symbol we all know. I don't know what it's about.

On the other hand, she says "David" was used of Jesus (and those who preceded and followed him) as a title, because he was the heir apparent to the Davidic line of kings, and "star" was used of him as the counterpart of "sceptre", which was used of somebody else, because they went together in the Old Testament, and at some point in the history, Jesus and the other person were regarded as a pair. I think she explains a little more fully why she thinks those items were used.

I'm not saying I'm convinced she's right, but I'm convinced her doubts are good ones, and I've had some of the same doubts myself.

I'm frankly disappointed that she doesn't go into detail about the "sureness" of her speculation on each point. It matters a lot!

I wish you'd ask another question. Give me something else to look into.

It's been weeks at least since I cracked a book. I haven't even looked at my new (old) copy of Geza Vermes, not to mention the New Testament in Greek. Nag Hammadi and the Clementine stuff are lost in storage. I've got a Biblical Greek dictionary, but it's full of abbreviations, especially of grammar terms I don't understand. And it's hard putting Greek on usenet!

I thought I could struggle through some pesher work, but I can't, and haven't really tried, anyway.

--
Marshall Price of Miami
marshallprice@xxxxxxx
http://marshallprice.wordpress.com
.

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