Re: [SRQ] The Three Trillion Dollar War

Ian Davis wrote:
In article <bPydnaSRepF9yJ3V4p2dnAA@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,

<snip>

Yet it was you with all your claimed libertarian baggage who held to
the notion that you felt that it was not yet time for US forces to
withdraw
from Iraq.

<bangs head on table>

This was not Engineer's position. I don't know why you keep saying it was.
Even I understood his position.

Here is it is in the most simplist terms I can come up with:

Engineer always opposed the war. However, the USA & some of its allies
invaded anyway. A few years later, the situation seemed hopeless. At that
point in time, staying in Iraq would obviously cause harm. But so would
withdrawing at that point in time. Engineer felt he did not have enough
information to decide which would cause the *least* harm, and therefore felt
that he could not say that either was a better choice.

<snip>

It may seem a strange thing to say, but it has saddened me ever since
you announced your support for the continued presence of US forces in
Iraq to have to conceed that you are by your chosen position here
logically an accomplice to those who would perpetuate the ongoing war
in Iraq which I view a crime against humanity.

Again, that was not (and still isn't) Engineer's position.

I think we all agree taht the best course of events would have been never to
go into Iraq in the first place. I suspect many of those who made the
decision to go in in the first palce would now agree that it would have been
better had the USA and its allied never invaded.

But thats a moot point now, because the USA and its allies did invade.

So, what would you do now?

You can either:
a) continue to mlitarily engage with Iraqis, knowing that this will cause
more harm and suffering or
b) immediately withdraw all the invading troops, which would also cause more
harm and suffering or

If you pick a), explain why you would willingly cause more harm and
suffering.

If you pick b), explain why you would willingly cause more harm and
suffering.

Note that c) find another way out of this mess that causes less harm and
suffering is not an option in the scenario you gave Engineer


Time will tell. My personal prediction is that a time will come when
the
US grasps that the war in Iraq was as flawed as the war in Vietnam.

I think that its pretty obvious that the Iraq war is flawed to most people
already. (Especially the Iraqis and the families of the soldiers killed over
there)

His "we just walked in so we can just walk out" was to my mind the
least harmful of all future options regarding Iraq, and would have
saved the US billions in good money thrown after bad, as well as to
my mind avoided
the future harm done by US forces continuing to illegally occupying
another nation, and continuing to strive to achieve the impossible
goal of gaining
a monopoly on violence.

I don't think its as simple as 'walking out', leaving the mess we ourselves
made for others to clean up (and for the Haliburtons of the world to take
advantage of). Just walking out, leaving no further planning, no formalised
handovers, no support structures etc etc is just as irresonsible as going in
there inthe first place, IMHO.

Now if we could just have those trained soldiers help with practical matters
such as rebuilding destroyed cities, restoring utlities etc etc, then *that*
would be useful. But since that didn't even happen in a domestic disaster
(ie, Katrina), I can't see it happening in Iraq.

I'm not usually a conspiracy theory supporter, but it seems quite obvious to
me that the western world's presence in Iraq was never about 9/11, Saddam
Hussein or weapons of mass destruction. Its just about securing oil
supplies, simple as that.

Yowie


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: BASHING THE U.S. ARMY, Murtha style
    ... Until we re-establish a presence in Iraq. ... "This war needs to be personalized. ... All wars, fought for good reasons or bad, cause suffering for those who ... The suffering of soldiers is ->not a valid reason to withdraw. ...
    (alt.politics.bush)
  • Re: War: why everyone wishes it would stop but no one can stop it.
    ... Presume that the same pictures were a result of Iran invading Iraq ... The hypothetical had nothing to do with any facts about 9/11 or Iran. ... war of aggression, their would never have been his second. ... the suffering in Iraq is not at all about who's doing it. ...
    (soc.religion.quaker)
  • Re: Karen Hughes Bombs Out in Turkey
    ... >>>Turkish women counter Hughes on war ... scuffled verbally with Turkish women over the Iraq war yesterday ... what they countered with were questions of how the war in Iraq ... We see many of our citizens suffering. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Who Is Lying About Iraq?
    ... >>countries like Iraq, nor do I think that republicans or democrats seem ... >>particularly concerned about he suffering of the people in coutnries like ... > should go to war on the basis of threat of threat from Iraq. ... > should have been presented to congress for war. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Who Is Lying About Iraq?
    ... >>>particularly concerned about he suffering of the people in coutnries like ... >>>people in countries like Iraq. ... >> should go to war on the basis of threat of threat from Iraq. ...
    (soc.retirement)