Re: the approval of others and playing the jury ( was1st Century Apostolic enlightener


<qspirit@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:77jss1dphf445usj1hcni7kg6es2ldhva9@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:57:56 -0800, "Dennis" <dennybop@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Personally I'm not concerened how others choose to sign their posts as
>>long
>>as they are not trying to impersonate another.
>
> I don't worry about "sock puppets" any more, at least not unless they
> are impersonating me. Having been accused of using sock puppets by
> one I stongly suspect of being a sock puppet I had an opening in
> regard to all of this.
>
> If someone wants to post "to himself," to agree with himself in an
> argument, to make it look like more than one person in the newsgroup
> shares his views on something or disagrees with someone else that's
> fine. Even when someone uses two or three "persons" at a time to
> attack someone else it shouldn't make any difference.
>
> It doesn't matter how many people share a point of view. It might be
> difficult to arrange but its certainly do-able to get 50,000 people
> (even more) to write into this newsgroup and agree with Jeff's
> evangelical views or Engineer when he states his views about
> government and taxes or someone else who states that another member of
> the group is bad or evil or whatever. But that doesn't make them
> right (or wrong) about anything. They may be right but the fact that
> people express agreement with them--whether those are real people or
> not--adds nothing to the discussion. It may well add to the ego and
> self confidence of those who are agreed with (and give them a
> temporary enhancement of their feelings of power and dominance of the
> newsgroup) but if it's ego gratification one seeks, here (and
> obviously for people who employ sock puppets, it is), then one is
> lost, anyway, and using sock puppets will only push one further into
> the illusions that animate him. Being concerned about the practice, I
> believe, pulls one into that same illusion--that what other people
> think makes things true or false, that to be right one must agree with
> or disagree with the "right" or the "wrong" people, that is several
> people disagree with me I must be wrong or other people will think I
> am wrong.
>
> This matters when the newsgroup becomes enmeshed in "playing to the
> jury"--when it becomes a school yard power struggle of dominance and
> control instead of a place where people can teach and learn from one
> another.
>
> For all quotes I collect I don't have the two I need right now at my
> finger tips:
>
> But I can paraphrase Lincoln in saying that if I am right that will
> come through in the end and if I am wrong then the sworn statements of
> support from 50,000 angels won't change the outcome.
>
> And I can paraphrase Fox in saying that the approval or disapproval of
> people doesn't add a thing or take away a thing from the message.
>
> If the approval of other people--and the disapproval of a lot of
> people--sway us away from what we know to be true then how well did we
> really know it? It's always important to consider what others have to
> say, especially when a lot of people are saying it. But it's most
> important to consider *what* they are saying, rather than how many
> people are saying it or even how well they seem to be saying it.
>
> As one who has changed his mind, over the years, about a lot of
> things, and does so on a daily basis about something or other, I do
> not discount the importance of hearing others. But I do discount, as
> I say, the fact of who says it (be they someone with whom I generally
> agree or not, or even someone I like or not) and how many people say
> it. What is said, not who said it or how they may say it, is what's
> important.
>
> In fact, it doesn't even matter why they say it. People have said
> things to and about me in this newsgroup (and elsewhere) that were
> intended to nothing more than hurt my feelings or humiliate me into
> silence and yet the result of the malicious act was that I was
> edified.
>
> Timothy Travis
> Bridge City Friends Meeting
> Portland, Oregon

Timothy,

There's lots to chew on here. I mostly agree, although I don't think it
adds to the argument if you seem to be casting a slight glance at someone
else here. Perhaps it is only my impression, and if so forgive me; I mean
no harm. The paraphrase from Lincoln is one I think I've heard, but did not
know it's attribution.
One thing that bothers me about this particular newsgroup is that it seems
impossible to disagree without stirring up ill-feelings...even when one is
trying to be clear, concise and on-point. I don't think honest disagreement
is a bad thing. I think it is wonderful when two opposing sides can explore
a subject together, each learning something from the other. It is then that
we attain far greater knowledge and understanding, IMO.

BTW, is a sock puppet an impersonation? I had thought it was simply a
"made-up" figure. I don't know what I thought someone faking the posts of
others was called...except perhaps "near-diabolical".

Dennis







.

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