Re: FREEMASONRY - Should we ignore this connection or not?


<millerjamesc@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:11novb583t8c93f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

: His obsevation was that contemporary LDS temple ceremonies derive from
: Israelite Temples during the Monarchic period. I think we both agree
: that in the context of LDS theology, this was not true for several
: reasons.


Agreed.

: The interpretations you use to come to this conclusion are not shared
: by historians or anthropologists outside of LDS circles.

And our beliefs in pre-existance, priesthood creation, etc. are also not
held by many outside of our religion - this, in and of itself, is not reason
enough to make our assertions false, mearly that they can not be prooved -
by then the first principle of the Gospel is Faith.

: Concerning the LDS endowment being lost to Israel at the foot of Sinai,
: here I suspect you may be substituting Folk Mormonism for official
: doctrine.

The LDS endowment - as it was revealed, and in its current form, is not
something I believe ever existed in previous dispensations. However, I do
believe that certain elements have been known in previous dispensations -
namely the key words, signs and tokens. And certainly elements of the temple
ordinances existed - washing, annointing and clothing in certain ceremonial
garments.

: I'm afraid neither of us will be able to find any scripture
: or official 1st Presidency statements which explicitly say this. That
: being the case, I suggest that this belief is Folk Mormonism and not
: official doctrine.

We will not. But I think that you have to add to that the temple ordinances
themselves - which are not quoteable in this forum. And there are references
there which indicate that elements of the endowment were given to the
children of Adam and Eve prior to this dispensation.

: I agree that we do not have "full record" of the antedeluvian temple
: worship, but you may not be aware that we DO have substantial
: archaeological evidence for what the temples looked like and some
: physical evidence and some writing of what the worship consisted.

Absolutely we do - and we also know that in most part this was a complete
corruption of true temple worship.

: Excavations of thousands of antedeluvian dwellings in modern day Israel
: and Palestine have uncovered physical evidence of the worship of a
: pantheon of gods including El, Yahweh and his consort, Asherah, Ba'al,
: and others. Archeologists have uncovered the little household statues
: of these gods, typically placed in little shrines rather like our
: nativity scene groupings. We know the gods' names because of
: inscriptions on them and on pieces of pottery used as writing paper.

So does that mean then that you seek to follow these traditions because they
must be correct? I doubt it. Such were abominations after apostacy.


: By sheer coincidence, the current issue of Biblical Archaeology
: magazine shows color pictures of these little shrines in which the
: household gods were placed. Prior issues also show color pictures of
: the god figures, including Asherah, the Mother in Heaven for the
: ancient Israelis. There is also mention in the Bible of such household
: god figures. The archaeological evidence indicates animal and
: vegetable sacrifice in the household shrines and in clan temples around
: the countryside. The excavations encompass many centuries and
: thousands of examined household and communal sites with hundreds of the
: little figurines and writing on shards.

Interestingly if a nuclear holocaust were to cover the earth and in a few
thousand years an LDS temple were excavated then little slips of paper with
names written on them would be found on altars in that temple. What would
they think of that?

I am not, of course, suggesting that the names found in archaeological digs
were for a prayer roll. Mearly showing that all we can ever do is guess,
often with good information, at what was, or was not, done in previous
dispensations, and periods of apostacy.

: The evidence is that israeli worship was polytheistic for most of its
: history, with literally tons of evidence of animal and vegetable
: sacrifice, but no evidence whatsoever for anything remotely resembling
: the contemporary LDS temple ceremonies.

As I have already stated - washing, anointing, and special clothing were all
parts of prior temple worship - and still exist in part in our day. English
monarchs are wash and anointed at their corronations.

: The absence of evidence is not
: evidence of absense, but without evidence you can claim anything,
: particularly Folk Mormonism for which there is no scriptural evidence
: or official 1st Presidency statements.
:

I have to confess that I do not like the term Folk Mormonism - and what it
stands for. In part because I think it belittles those doctrines which we
hold true - and revealed truths. But also in part because I fear you are
somewhat correct.

I would like to re-state however that there is little officially stated by
the 1st presidency about temple worship. When significant changes were made
to the endowment at the start of the nineties (time period not a new
priesthood office superceding the Seventy) it just happened. Temple
presidencies were, at the time, given some information for use if members
asked questions. Recently however, with some minor changes (one in just the
last month - which was really just a clarification) temple presidencies did
not even get that.

The ordinances of the temple are revelatory - as such it is for the
individual to find the truth therein.


: Again, this interpretation is ONLY inside of LDS circles. Outside of
: LDS circles, the LDS interpretations of the facsimiles of the Book of
: Abraham are not held by professional non-LDS Egyptologists. Even some
: LDS Egyptologists reject LDS intepretations. For that matter, anyone
: with access to a library can find that some of Smith's interpretations
: of elements in the facsimiles are at variance with that of non-LDS
: Egyptologists.
:

Frankly it is only within the LDS circles that I care what people think. The
temple and its ordinances are for the converted.

: Along these lines, in the exit stories available online of formerly LDS
: who left the Church is relatively frequent mention of their discovery
: that the LDS interpretations of the facsimilies are at variance with
: the non-LDS academic world as one of the reasons why they left the
: Church.

Many reasons for leaving are given - and if I were to leave it would not be
for something so trivial.

: Remember, I didn't make the rules about what constitutes official
: doctrine and what constitutes Folk Mormonism.

I don't even know what the rules are. Doctrine - at least for me - is that
which the Spirit has born witness to me of.

: In this newsgroup, it is
: generally held that to qualify as official doctrine, there must be
: explicit scriptural support or official statements from the 1st
: Presidency, sustained by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. I'm just
: playing by your rules, guys.

That's nice for you in this context since, as I have stated already, you are
not going to get official statements about elements of the endowment.

Andrew R.


.

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