Re: LDS attacking mainstream Christian beliefs
- From: "Andrew R" <adr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:49:21 -0000
"Jeff Shirton" <jshirton@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:11h9i4febrjc1f7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
: "Justin Thyme" <pleasedontspamme@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
: news:11h8ptac1iu2581@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
:
: It's unfortunate that you seemed to have avoided answering my question
: directly, instead deciding to discuss two different non-LDS beliefs
: in an LDS newsgroup.
I thought he did quite a good job, and later on you seem to draw strength
for you argument from this.
:
: I guess that leaves me to try to figure out what your answer to my actual
: question is. (If I guess wrong, you can certainly correct me.)
:
: As to the example you gave, I wouldn't say that it is completely
: contradictory. For those who believe that immersion is "necessary",
: certainly the sprinklers would be "wrong". But for those who
: sprinkle, it seems certain that they would accept baptism by
: immersion, as that would be even more than adequate.
:
But the issue is that there are different methods. Some believe only certain
individuals can baptise - others that one must have some form of authority.
Those that say Immersion is required are "attacking" the beliefs of those
that do not. In *exactly* the same way that LDS "attack" others beliefs. Yes
Jeff, I agree with you. But I do not see it as a problem. Christ attacked
the beliefs of the religious leaders of His day - and His own religion at
the time.
It is impossible to spread the truth without saying to someone what you are
doing/believing is not correct. This however should in no way be seen as an
attack on an individual. Over on ARM we can seem good examples of this. In
all my interactions with Art Bulla I have never once been threatening or
dirogatory. I have pointed out why I do not believe his claims. However, in
preaching his words he constantly makes unsubstatiated statements about
peoples sexuality, etc. Do you see the difference.
Those seeking the truth do not take offense when others give their beliefs.
I have no problem with you showing how your beliefs are correct and ours are
flawed. I take great exception when you (and you do) generalise your view of
LDS based upon you fairly limited dealings with them.
: Okay, and treating this as an intellectual exercise, you seem
: to be agreeing that different views about one topic are
: "attacking" each other. You assert it explicitly within
: mainstream Christendom, but then it would also be true
: by extension when applied to LDS beliefs.
:
: So it appears that you agree with me that LDS assertions
: *are* attacking Christian beliefs which teach the contrary.
:
: So thank you for your opinion.
:
Of course he agrees. The purpose of missionary work is to bring people from
darkness into light. To help them to understand truth. It stands to reason
that part of this will be that some part of their hither to beliefs are
wrong.
You attack us on our understanding of the Trinity.
: Addressing the baptism issue, however, mainstream Christianity
: in general does not regard "baptism" to be a crucial belief for
: salvation (although there are certainly exceptions). However,
: knowing *who* God is, and whether or not He's the only one
: out there, *IS* crucial to salvation. So I'm not nearly so bothered
: by differences in belief over baptism as over things like monotheism.
:
It doesn't? Baptism is not required? Is this your belief? And if so how do
you interpret the Lord's words in John 3:3- 5. And I am not so concerned
here with method or authority (which we may discuss later) but more with the
requirement to be baptised. If it is not required, why was Jesus baptised?
And please, do not tell me what I believe, tell me what you believe.
: > Is the fact that LDS have a differing view on the nature of God doing
any
: > more to attack the beliefs of other Christians than other Christians are
: > already doing amongst themselves?
:
: Oops, I guess I just answered that.
: Some beliefs are crucial, some are secondary.
Indeed, some are, and some are not.
One that is.
That Christ is the Saviour. That the Atonement is a reality and that Christ
was resurrected. Our relationship with the Father, through Christ.
One that is not.
Whether the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three distinct humanoid
personages or whether they are part of some amorphos "thing" that fills the
universe.
:
: But thank you for asserting that you consider both to be "attacks".
: That was what I was looking for in this thread, after all.
:
Well, you got it from me.
: Yes, once again, just like Gregg, you only list the beliefs that
: are *common* with the rest of Christendom, making the LDS
: church no better than "any other church", trying to avoid mentioning
: the unique teachings that separate it out from Christianity and
: give it "the fullness of the gospel". You also don't define what
: you mean when you say "Christ as our Saviour", as I think it's
: pretty clear by anyone who's studied the LDS faith that what
: LDS mean by that, and what mainstream Christianity means by
: that, are *very* different ideas. Just because you use the same
: words, doesn't mean that you believe the same things.
:
It means that He took upon Himself the sins of the repentant - and having
died for them, overcame death and was resurrected, so that all may be
resurrected. As such He has saved all from death, and the repentant from
Spiritual Death.
: But you bring up an interesting point, Justin... You claim that
: the topics I've brought up, the "unique" teachings of Mormonism,
: are not listed among the "fundamentals". But what if mainstream
: Christians consider certain beliefs to be "fundamentals" even if
: you don't believe them to be so? And if those are being contradicted
: when LDS preach their beliefs, then there's the "attack".
:
And Vice Versa.
Andrew R.
.
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- Re: LDS attacking mainstream Christian beliefs
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