Re: drive-by pearl casting [reply]
- From: "Jeff Shirton" <jshirton@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 03:22:15 -0000
Gerald L. O'Barr wrote:
> This is a good point, up to a limit. Religion most
> certainly involves 'truth'! And most truth is not relative!
I'm glad that there is at least one LDS who believes this!
> But religion is not just a question of 'truth.'
> He who assumes that all this is only an intellectual
> effort is doomed to failure.
Well, of course.
I never said otherwise (in case you hadn't noticed).
But in order to have a relationship with God, that
relationship must be based on *truth*:
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true
worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit
and IN TRUTH: for the Father seeketh such to
worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him
must worship him in spirit and IN TRUTH.
> At the point where we now exist, our hearts are
> by far the biggest final decider in what we will
> do and be!
Not at all. In fact, one of the many reasons for the
many denominations and splinter groups, both outside
*and* inside of Mormonism, is because people choose
to "follow their hearts" rather than follow God's revealed
truth. And for good reason:
Jer 17:9 The HEART is DECEITFUL above all things,
and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Pro 28:26 He that TRUSTETH in his own HEART is a FOOL:
but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders,
adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness,
blasphemies:
The "heart" is where man creates his god in his own image,
judging god based on what that person "thinks" and "feels"
that his god *should* be like. The heart is deceitful above
all things.
> God knows that we are all different, and what is
> perfect for one is not always perfect for another.
> God knows that we could all be as He is
> (for He made us to be able to be like Him),
You err in assuming that "like Him", means exactly
like Him in all ways, or "as He is". It does not.
God is the Creator, man is the mere creature,
and sinful rebellious creature at that.
> In fact, God says that there is only one Heaven
> (which is where He lives), and any other choice
> is Hell! And in Hell, everyone therein is dammed!
No, not "dammed", but *damNed*.
The two words do not mean the same thing, and
"damnation" by God is not simply a "stoppage",
a cessation of "progression", as LDS seem to think
that it is.
But as for one Heaven and one Hell, that's what
mainstream Christians believe.
> How does God do all this? Well, only in the Celestial
> Kingdom exists unlimited growth and progress.
Well, no.
Contrary to LDS teachings....no.
> In all the lower Kingdoms, there is no eternal increase.
> Thus, there is a way to see that in all these lower kingdoms,
> there is a dam to our progress, a stopping or a limit
> to one's progress.
Again, I can never figure out why LDS have bought into
this misunderstanding notion of "damming", rather than
the Biblical damNing.
> Thus, all those who do not make it to God's personal
> Kingdom are dammed to that extent.
Interesting.
Most LDS tell me that as a Christian, I will be given
the "heaven" that I expect, which is supposed to be
the terrestrial kingdom (although it's not, as I *will*
be in the HIGHEST heaven in the DIRECT presence of
God the Father). Yet you seem to be saying that I will
end up in "hell", being "damMed", since I'm not LDS.
Go figure.
> So God does not lie.
No, but LDS seem to give me contrary stories.
> No one will be able to accuse God of not trying
> to get us to do the best we could!
God doesn't "try", as trying assumes failure as a
possible result. God never fails. God doesn't "try",
He simply *does*.
To quote Yoda,
"Do, or do not, there is no 'try'. "
> > Only God "giveth the increase".
> > Only God can convince.
> > Only God can turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh
> > (Ezek. 36:26).
>
> Where we have worked, and planted, and raised crops
> (whether in the field of physical crops or the field of men);
You seem to have missed Paul's point in 1 Cor. 3:7.
Man doesn't "raise crops". We can plant, we can water,
but we can't make the crops grow. *God* does that.
> >Is it really "effective", to sway one with smooth
> >sounding words, only to have them fall away in a
> >month's time? I don't think so.
>
> God never over-rides anyone's free agency.
"Free agency" in the way you are using it, is a myth
nowhere found in the Bible, and in fact contradicted
in the Bible, which teaches instead that we have
"enslaved" wills, not "free" ones.
> And any person can fall at any time they choose.
Gerald, over and over and over again, you make
incorrect claims, contrary to the Bible, and giving
no reason for anyone to accept them. Why do you
continue to do this?
There is a teaching in the Bible, that Christians refer
to as "perseverence of the Saints" (or better, preservation
of the saints), since God *protects* and *keeps* His
elect, not letting *any* of His sheep to fall.
Just a few of the *many* passages which teach this
wonder truth of God's loyalty are John 6:37, 39,
John 10:28,29, 17:12, Rom. 14:4, etc. etc. etc.
Jeff Shirton jshirton at cogeco dot
ca
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"[T]he gospel is not that man can become god,
but that God became a man." -- James White
Challenge me (Theophilus) for a game of chess at Chessworld.net!
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