Re: Messenger, Liar or Schizophrenic?


Vladimir wrote:

The Jupiter-orbitting-teapot example is an example of Bertrand Russell
in his discussion of burden of proof, and now it has become a textbook
example of the subject. You are the only one in the whole world who
says that such a claim is true until proven false.

What we said stands unchallenged. A false statement cannot undergo
a truth test and succeed; That's why we are able to label falsehood as
"false."

You say "it is proven false easily", but actually no, you cannot prove
it false easily. We barely detect huge satellites of Jupiter big as
our planet. How are you supposed to detect something small as a
teapot? What amount of time is sufficient observing Jupiter with a
telescope, trying to see if there are any teapots orbitting it, and
after not seeing any, to conclude that it has no teapots orbitting it?
Remember Galileo observed only 3 moons of Jupiter, but could he say
that he can prove anyone false who claims Jupiter has 4 moons? Today
we catalogue 10 moons of Jupiter, if I remember correctly.

You are mixing irrelevant things together. It is obvious that a moon
revolves
around a planet, just like it is obvious that you will find balloons
in a toystore.
But it is not obvious that you will find a teapot revolving around a
planet,
just like it is not obvious that you will be able to buy a new [real]
car from
a toystore.

Making the claim that a teapot revolves around a certain planet is
already
refuted by yourself: You simply cannot see the teapot, you are not
certian
about it, it's just an imagination. Therefore making a claim based on
something that you didn't see, and that which you are not certain of,
makes
the claim false.

However, there is more to the story: A teapot is a pot. But it's no
ordinary pot,
it's a tea+pot. This by itself makes the claim difficult to accept.
Who made the
teapot, and who placed it over there (or who threw it)? Moreover, the
existence
of a teapot means that its manufacturer knows about tea and its
drinking
habits -- unless you believe that teapots can come randomly out of
chance.
All that makes the claim difficult to accept.

What is contained in the Quran is totally different than the
comparison you
proposed. Totally different...

What does it mean to prove the Quran false? Do you mean to prove the
claim that "the Quran is the word of God" false? I dont have to prove
that false. Whoever makes the claim has to prove it true.

I can't help you over here. You're the one initiating the challenge,
and
you must be able to do it on your own. So far, you haven't succeeded.

And no, I dont assume that it is true that the Quran is the word of
God.

Well you did give a possibility that what the Messenger (s) said
and believed about himself is true, but it could be something else
(i.e., schizophrenia, hallucinations, etc.) And since both
possibilities
are contradictory, you cannot apply Occam's Razor on them. So one
of the possibilities have to prevail over the other. You don't have
any
scientific way of doing that.

You simply dont have any intention to debate the issue. It is clear
from your word games that you just want to evade. Ok, have it your
way. I will just find a serious opponent.

Well, the way I see it is that you have no point to debate on. But
goodluck,
anyway.

Abdalla Alothman

.

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