Re: Hama-ost


"Zuiko Azumazi" <azumazi@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
>> There is confusion here:-
(1) Those are not the words of John Eristu but mine (Altway).

> If you check this John Eritsu message link it says and I quote:-
"But unlike Western Philosophy and science the Quran does not make an
absolute distinction between the material and the mental or even between
these and the spiritual."...
> It's in his original post of this thread. Is there an earlier post that's
> missing?

Comment:-
He was quotng me.
See Eristus article of Dec 26 and my article Dec 27 in this thread.

The original article was in another thread. It must have appeared for
Eristu to comment on, but I appended an extract below.

>> (2) The opinions of Bertrand Russel are not based on a study of Islam.

Comment:-
If I wish to discus Western Philosophy I would go to the site where
that is discussed.
Here I am only interested in ideas that derive from
or are compatible with Islam.

Hamid S. Aziz

Extract:-

Question:-

There is a battle, mainly in the USA, between Scientists who support the
Theory of Evolution and Religious Fundamentalists who support Intelligent
Design. One recent evangelical commentator posited the "legally proven
beyond any doubt" proposition. In this particular regard, I was wondering
how Muslims perceive the recent court decision in the USA over the
contentious "Intelligent Design" case? See this Internet link (968,000
hits):-
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=court+case+%22intelligent+design+%22&btnG=Search.

Does this "legally proven beyond any doubt" outcome have any implications
for Islam or just fundamentalist evangelism? Do Muslim agree with the
underhand tactics deployed by the "Intelligent Design" advocates? Does not
their stance, in Islamic terms, reflect the unethical "the end justifies the
means" premise?

Comment:-

I see confusion owing to ignorance and inadequate thinking.

As far as I see matters, Science is concerned with the physical aspect of
the Created Universe. Religion is concerned with a much wider field that
includes values and purposes, life, behaviour and action in adjustment to
Reality.

Logic and Reason (which is wider) and both are a sub-set of thinking, which
is a subset of living, are also concerned with the created world. These are
subsets of Intelligence. Human beings are much more than this as they have
perception, consciousness, conscience, motives, desires, imagination,
various skills and capacities for action. As human beings are part of
existence created from its materials and laws then existence as a whole
possess these features. Sight is the power of the eye, but it is the person
who has the eye that sees. There is a distinction between the Psychological
and physical though they are inter-dependent.

As far the Legal system is concerned that refers to a third factor between
the Psychological and the Physical, namely the Social sphere. This is
concerned with social contracts, conditioning, traditions and organisations,
though physical facts and reason also play their part.
The distinction between these three fields must be kept in mind, Failure to
do this results in much confusion. It is this confusion that we now see in
the USA.

>>From the Islamic point of view, we see that the Universe certainly contains
order and design. We also see that intelligence exists in us and also in
other things. We cannot, therefore, define intelligence in an
anthropomorphic manner. It can be defined as the ability to adjust, adapt
and find an equilibrium.

Fundamentally, there is a Unity from which all things come by
differentiation. This means that there is a System which has inter-dependent
parts that are also system, each having parts that are systems and so on
through the various levels or heavens and earths.
The System is a whole that is more than the sum of the parts owing to the
pattern or structure and the numerous interactions and feed back loops that
create non-linear equations and uncertainty principles. The wholes create or
affect the parts and the parts must adjust to the whole. Therefore, the
impulse that comes from the fundamental whole passes down the levels
producing effects.

Unlike Western Philosophy and science, there is no distinction in Islam
between the physical and the mental or between them and the spiritual. There
are only different kinds of phenomena that have these aspects to various
degrees.

The Mechanical Determinist principle arises from this distinction. It is an
assumption before facts are collected, interpreted, organised and processes,
and it re-appears in the conclusions giving the false assumption that it has
been proved. In fact, it has been assumed in order to avoid the notion of
intelligence because its effects are unpredictable. And yet unpredictability
remains and is then assumed under the name Chance or Random. In fact, Chance
cannot be a Cause and simply refers to ignorance and inability to calculate.

However, in so far as science has the limited objective it can only pursue
those objectives as far as it can, and modify the aims and its principles
when necessity demands it. (Occam's Razor which is also implied in Quran
7:71). In so far as all things are fundamentally connected and knowledge
advances such a necessity will inevitably come to pass. This is a surer way
of proceeding when only reason is used with the aid of technology that
extends the senses. (Discoveries in Quantum Physics appear to have reached
this point but its conclusions have not yet suffused through all the
sciences.)

However, the human being is a much more sensitive instrument than those that
have been invented and interacts with the world directly at much subtler
levels. Reasoning can, of course, start only from something that is not
rational, something assumed, understood or perceived, and it must lead to
some conclusion that can be verified by perception. But perception requires
interaction with the world, is much more restricted than interaction, and
can be wrong. The ultimate test of truth is that it is self-consistent and
leads to harmonious adjustment to Ultimate Reality, to what we call Allah.

For Islam the fundamental assumption is that Allah, the unitary origin of
all Reality exists. The second assumption is that intelligence exists
because Allah has created it. It includes consciousness (perception),
conscience (the motivating force) and will (the power to adjust). This is
because without it nothing can be known, nor is there any motive to know or
any interaction by which knowledge is obtained. In other words there cannot
be any science, and indeed any life without it, and Science itself is just
one aspect of life. Intelligence is required to live, and obtaining
knowledge is part of this. We have this intelligence because we are part of
existence, made of its materials and interact with it. If the mind were to
work differently from the way nature works it could not know it, but it
could not work differently because it is part of it. When we acquire
knowledge we absorb and increase intelligence, which enhances the ability to
adjust to Reality.

The third assumption is that the contents of consciousness exist. This
includes sensations, feelings and thoughts and they are also
inter-dependent. It is these that give us the notions of matter (inertia,
resistance), life (energy) and spirit (order, information, truth)
respectively. They correspond to the aspects of Intelligence mentioned
before and also give us the notions of facts, meaning and value. It also
gives us three aspects or levels of knowledge, of experience, of reason and
of inspiration.

It is necessary to understand that Knowledge requires:- (a) Degrees of
Intelligence (b) Certain fundamental notions that conform to the nature of
the mind and are inherent. (c) Motives that direct attention and determine
seeking, selecting, interpreting and organising data. These flow from
inherent drives and their channelling through experience namely the
self-preservation, reproductive, the social and the self-extensive. (d)
Experience in the environment based on sense perception. (e) Certain social
and cultural conditions that provide stimuli, conceptual systems and
frameworks in which things are perceived. (f) A set of activities and skills
by which interaction with the environment takes place which determines the
kind of data available. (g) Processing of data by comparison, association,
analysis, and synthesis. The raw sense data goes through several levels;-
sensation, perception, conception, ideation, systematisation, integration,
assimilation. (h) Inspiration or revelation when suddenly data falls into a
pattern, a self-consistent system that feels satisfying because it is
consistent with inherent factors. This may be regarded as something arising
into normally restricted consciousness from the much wider unconscious mind
which is in interaction with the rest of existence.

Science tends to base itself mainly on the sense of sight and often
indirectly through instruments or various dials on them. In fact, there are
many more senses than those that are generally recognised. We can classify
them as follows:-

(a) The outer senses - sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch. These can be
subdivided. For instance sight includes colours, intensities, shapes,
patterns. Touch includes the sense of pressure, texture and temperature.

(b) The middle or physiological senses - balance, orientation, movement, the
kinaesthetic muscle sense that gives us the idea of weight, various physical
sensations, the sense of physical well being, pain and pleasure, sense of
warmth or cold.

(c) The inner senses - thought, feeling (desire, emotion, sympathy,
empathy), willing (intending, volitional efforts), sense of self, sense of
order and consistency, meaning, inspiration.

A distinction can be made between four levels of knowledge:- (a) Type 1 -
Knowing Of X - Having information. E.g. we know that the moon exists. (b)
Type 2 - Knowing About X - Passive and Impersonal. E.g. Scientific
knowledge, which may consist of a set of facts. (c) Type 3 - Knowing X -
Interactive knowledge. E.g. knowing ones spouse and children. (d) Gnosis -
Knowledge of Identification. E.g. Empathy, the ability to see oneself in
place of the other and experience the same. There are degrees of this.

Other things that are sometimes included here are such things as a sense of
Beauty, Justice, Goodness, Truth etc. But these are regarded as Attributes
of Allah and therefore, as fundamental Categories of Perception.
........................
etc etc

.

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