Re: Translations IN the Quran

Anjum, hello

I have trouble understanding you. You write:

[quote]So Moses spoke in the language of his time.

But he was quoted in Arabic in the Qur`an. And it is Moses' speech, as
quoted in Arabic in the Qur`an, that were transmitted by God to
Muhammad, according to what we accept.

When the Arabic Qur`an is translated in another language, we Muslims do

not consider it to be the Qur`an, rather, a
translation/rendering/commentary/interpretation of the Qur`an.[/quote]

If I read in an English translation of a French novel "He said : 'The
dog was fed at midnight' " I would not consider these words to be in
any sense original but derived from another sentence in a foreign
language. The French would either have been "Il a dit:" On a donné à
manger au chien à minuit" or possibly "Il a dit : "Le chien a été
nourri à minuit". The first version would be more usual in French than
the second athough the second is closer to the English translation. I
really cannot think of any other way of translating this back into
French. In both cases in French the meaning is quite clear. Somebody
fed the dog at midnight. Now if Moses is QUOTED in Arabic and you
acknowledge that he did not speak in Arabic then really I cannot see
how it is possible for a Muslim to maintain that Moses' direct speech
in the Quran is anything else but a translation of what he said in
Hebrew. The same for what the Jews said to Moses.

[quote]They said: We suffered hurt before thou camest unto us, and
since thou hast come unto us. He said: It may be that your Lord is
going to destroy your adversary and make you viceroys in the earth,
that He may see how ye behave.[/quote]

This is Pickthall's translation from the Arabic which is

"Qaloo ootheena min qabli an ta/tiyana wamin baAAdi ma ji/tana qala
AAasa rabbukum an yuhlika AAaduwwakum wayastakhlifakum fee al-ardi
fayanthura kayfa taAAmaloona."

In Arabic this is DIRECT SPEECH and not reported speech. And so if
Moses and the Jews did not speak in Arabic then the words in the Quran
are not the words spoken by Moses and the Jews. They are translations.
I do not speak Hebrew, but if these words were translated back into
Hebrew then they would be closer to the actual words spoken rather than
what we read in the Quran. It seems so obvious to me and I am sure that
it would sound obvious to almost everyone!

[quote]As a professional, certified translator with over 30 years of
full-time
translation experience, I can tell you with confidence that you do not
know what translation is.[/quote]

I too have translated many works and I've been doing it for almost as
long as you !

[quote]The "direct speech" of Moses (peace be on him) to which you
refer is NOT his actual words but a representation of the meaning of
those words for
people who did not live with him in his time and place.[/quote]

But if it is DIRECT SPEECH then how can it be a "representation" of
what was said? Direct speech cannot be 'represented' but only
translated. It can be translated accurately or inaccurately. It can be
closer to the meaning of the original or it can be wide of the mark.
Now surely you would not claim that Allah is a poor translator. So
presumably for you the translation is a perfect one. But perfect or not
it is still a translation and can be translated back into its ORIGINAL
Hebrew.

Reported speech in which verb tenses change can be viewed as a
representation but not DIRECT SPEECH. Do you mean that the words in the
Quran attributed to Moses were not for a Muslim like you actually
spoken by Moses in Hebrew? There is no indication in the Koran itself
that these words are to be considered in any other way than as spoken
by Moses and the Jews.

I must admit debating with Muslims puts my head in a spin. For you a
Book is not a Book, writing is not writing, speech is not speech and
translations are not translations!


[quote]What you are suggesting is what translators call "back
translation" and it rarely reconstitutes literally and precisely the
exact words of the original.
ALL translation is affected by addition of meaning, by subtraction of
meaning and by skewing or distortion of meaning.[/quote]

So since the direct speech of Moses and the Jews in the Quran has been
translated from the original Hebrew then can one conclude that the
words in the Quran are skewed and distorted?

.

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