Re: Full moon of "ramadan"
- From: "Ayman" <drayman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 2 Jul 2005 01:40:09 GMT
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> mainly because the crescent becomes visible at differnet times in
> different places.
Thank you for your comments.
Yes, this is another reason why the new crescent makes a lousy universal
timing device.
> sometime in the 1970's I remember on Turkish TV the director
> of religious affairs (muslim) of Turkey, explaning that he advocated
> the visibility of so many arc seconds of moon illuminated
> and thus defending his declared date for the observance of Ramadan.
>
> this was part of an overall effort to unifyu the Islamic calendar
> and that he was going to defend this position in an upcoming
> international conference on << ru'yatu~l-hila:l >> i.e.
> sighting of the crescent and unifying the calendar. i don't
> think the effort was succesful.
Yes, now and in the past people have realized that the current so-called
Islamic calendar is clearly defective.
> that is hardly "a long time after"
Well, it somewhat depends on when you think the prophet lived.
> this is consistent wth the statement that the pagans and muslims
> initally performed the pilgrimage together but towards the end
> performed it at different times.
The pre-quranic Arab pagans performed pilgrimages for their main idols,
which were Dhu Al-Shaara, Allat, Al-Uzza, and Manwat. The pagan
pilgrimage was conducted around the winter solstice in celebration of
the birth of Dhu Al-Shaara. Those celebrations culminated with the
pagans spinning seven times around the inner sanctuary of the temple.
While it is documented in the great reading (22:27) that it is Abraham
who originally invited people to "7ajj", there is no evidence that any
of the previous Abrahamic religions performed such pilgrimages or
rituals at any point of time. In fact, quite to the contrary, the
evidence shows that previous Abrahamic religions frowned on those
pilgrimages and considered their rituals purely pagan. So this cannot be
what Abraham invited people to.
On the other hand, it is an old Semitic custom that is even referred to
in the older parts of the Pentateuch, to have a gathering three times a
year (See Enc. of Islam II [7ajj]). This matches well with the four
restricted full-moons, with the first scorching full-moon being that for
fasting while the next three signaling the gathering of "7ajj" three
times a year.
According to Classical Arabic dictionaries, "7ajj" means "debate". We
are told in 22:27 that Ibrahim invited all people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" to
witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something
beneficial and non-discriminatory. We are told in 28:27 that Moses was
hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was he hired to do? Clearly, he was
hired to work and tend for sheep (28:23-24) and NOT for any pagan
religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with
"7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with
their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in
witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer.
Hence, "7ajj" is more likely to be a gathering like the annual fair.
People work all year and then come from all over to trade their
products, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's
favors. Mid summer - fall is the natural time for such markets because
produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj"
simply provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible
of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and
provide for the disadvantaged. This view is attested to and is
consistent with what is known about pre-quranic annual markets (See Enc.
of Islam II [7ajj]).
> it wasn't "wrong" at the time since the verse banning intercalation
> wasn't revealed yet.
The change in the Umar calendar was not just in the intercalation. Other
things were also changed, such as the order of the months. The
traditional view is that we should imitate the prophet. Yet according to
the traditions themselves, the prophet never fasted according to the
Umar calendar. This creates a major contradiction for traditionalists.
The tradition about the Umar calendar can only prove the haphazard and
arbitrary way by which this calendar came about.
> if you look at Lane, the original system was:
>
> al-*sh*ita:' (winter) / al-rabi:3u~l'awwal / al-Sayf / al-qayZ /
> ar-rabi:3u~*th*-*th*a:ni / al-xari:f
>
> when the 4 season system became common, two different systems formed:
>
> 1) al-*sh*ita:' (winter) / al-rabi:3 / al-Sayf / al-xari:f
>
> 2) al-*sh*ita:' (winter) / al-Sayf / al-qayZ / al-xari:f
>
> the first was that of sedentary, rural or city folk
>
> the second was that of bedouins.
>
> the lexicographers prefered bedouin usage, but modern arabic adopted
> urban usage.
Yes, although there were other conventions, Lisan Al-3arab refers to the
convention of "al-*sh*ita:' (winter) / al-Sayf / al-qayZ / al-xari:f"
as the prevailing one at the time. We are concerned with the prevailing
usage at the time of the revelation of the great reading not the one
that was adopted by Modern Arabic.
> ar-rabi:3u~*th*-*th*a:ni: "early fall" and rabi:3u~*th*-*th*a:ni:
> (month name) are different. the first is a noun, the other a proper name.
This proper name for the month was given for a reason. This reason can
be found by studying the etymology, which indicates that in pre-quranic
times before the Umar calendar, it had to do with the second grazing in
the fall.
> no proof of that. the name of the seasons are a different matter,
> see above.
As the pre-quranic Arabs increasingly used the four season system of
"al-*sh*ita:' (winter) / al-Sayf / al-qayZ / al-xari:f" instead of the
six-season system, the "first rabi3" and "second rabi3" seasons were
assimilated into months names but would not have changed their place in
the calendar. The change in the order seems to have taken place sometime
after the calendar was disconnected from the seasons.
> the waxing crescent.
That is not a meaning of "shahr" in Classical Arabic dictionaries. They
simply say that Arabs used to call the moon "shahr". They are mostly not
very specific on which stage of the moon, but the etymology points to
full-moon.
> it's the manifesting of th emon
>
> that it meant a waxing crescent is evident from archeaology. it
> was also the meaning given to it by most dctionaries. attestations
> of it as "full moon" are late and infrequent.
>
> whatever you think, the oldest meaning attested is "waxing crescent"
No, most dictionaries simply say that Arabs used to call "al-qamar"/moon
as "shahr". They do not specify which stage. As for "full moon"
attestations, although they may be late and infrequent, they do match
well with the etymology.
I am also not sure what you mean by "evident from archeology". It was
previously thought that the moon-idol of the Sabaeans was named Il Mukah
[For example: Coon, C. S. (1944) Southern Arabia, Smithsonian,
Washington, D.C.]. However, more recent studies indicate that the
symbols of the bull's head and the vine motif that are associated with
this idol are solar and that he was a male partner of their sun goddess.
Other evidence shows that the female moon goddess of the Sabaean was
named Shayba who represented the Moon in its threefold existence -
waxing, (maiden), full (pregnant mother), and waning (old wise woman).
Notice that "ash-harat", a derivative of shahr, means pregnant mother
whose belly is round.
In Ma'in the idol Wadd originated from North Arabia and probably was a
moon god. The formula "Wadd is (my?) father" written on amulets and
buildings, is often accompanied by a crescent moon with the small disk
of Venus.
Interestingly, the crescent moon represents the Greek goddess Diana. The
city of Byzantium adopted the crescent moon symbol in honor of the
goddess Diana. As part of the Christian appropriation of pagan
symbolism, they kept it as the symbol of the city, which they renamed to
Constantinople. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (later known as
Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing crescent moon
symbol. The story goes that Osman, the founder of the Ottoman Empire,
had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the
earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the
crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. On the other hand, the
early Muslim community did not really have a symbol.
Ironically, modern Christian missionaries have contended that this
symbol is proof that Muslims venerate a pagan moon-god, when in fact
this symbol was adopted by the Ottomans from the Christians and it was
they who took it from the pagans.
> roughly a month after the summer solictice.
Yes, this is in agreement with "shahr ramadan" being the first full-moon
after the summer solstice.
> > Now the next question to ask is about the year. Is the year in the great
> > reading solar or lunar?
>
> discussed before.
Yes, at the time I showed you 17:12. Here is Y. Ali's translation
(emphasis mine):
017.012
YUSUFALI: WE HAVE MADE THE NIGHT AND THE DAY as two (of Our) Signs: the
Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have
made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and THAT
YE MAY KNOW THE NUMBER AND COUNT OF THE YEARS: all things have We
explained in detail.
Given that night and day is determined by the sun and not the moon, the
sign in 17:12 leaves absolutely no doubt that the year is solar.
As far as I remember, your counterargument was that 17:12 is a
"loophole" in the great reading. I am sorry but this was not a
convincing argument back then and it is no more convincing now.
> both intercalation and simple declaration of holy or profane
> months is attested for pre-islamic times.
>
> an intercalary lunar calendar is attested for pre-islamic times.
It cannot mean both. Which one do you think is more likely to mean
"nasi'a"?
An intercalary lunar calendar continues to be used and is attested for
even today. However, Classical Arabic dictionaries say that "nasi'a"
means "delay" and that the Arabs used to delay the start of the
restriction.
> you cannot have 13 lunations in a solar year.
This contradicts what you said earlier about "shahr" meaning "the waxing
crescent". There can be 13 waxing crescents in a solar year. Are you now
suddenly changing your mind and the meaning of "shahr" to lunar cycle
(lunations)? In this case, there are in fact twelve and a third
lunations per solar year, never twelve.
I look forward to you resolving this contradiction.
Peace,
Ayman
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