Re: God will save all Israel. And then, He will save all Mankind.

lsenders@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Douglas Cox wrote:
> >
> > Paul wrote, "we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all
> > men". See below.
>
> No biblical text teaches universal apprehension of the salvific offer.
> The offer is universal but the partaking is not. That Israel was
> elected amoung all the nations meant that all the other nations were
> not choosen. The follows for individual election as for the national
> election. Is this not Paul's point in Rom 9-11?

I think you miss the point of Rom 9-11, and Paul's metaphor of the
olive tree. The believers of the Gentiles are like branches of wild
olive trees, that are graffed in to the good (or "cultivated", as it
says in the RSV) olive tree, that represents Israel, and so inherit the
promises made to Abraham. In other words they become part of the
"commonwealth of Israel" as Paul calls it in Ephes 2.

Eph 2:12-13 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens
from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of
promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in
Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood
of Christ.

That's also why Paul refers to them as the "Israel of God", Ga 6:16.

OTOH, those who were Jews and who did not believe the gospel were
called natural branches of the olive that were broken off and cast
aside, which implies that it is the Gentile (and Jewish) believers who
are now the Israel of God, and so, the promises and prophecies about
Israel, and Jerusalem, and the temple, etc. pertain to those who are
believers, that is, Christians. But eventually, according to Paul,
those natural branches that were broken off will be grafted back in.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by
nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how
much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into
their own olive tree?

So Paul understood the unbelieving Jews that were "broken off",
including all those who have already died, will some day be graffed
back into the true Israel and be saved.

<snip>

> > Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
> > righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow,
> > every tongue shall swear.
>
> Ya, so? This does not allude to a confession of faith but an
> acknowledgement of His sovereignty. True confession as taught by Paul
> is:
>
> Rom. 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and
> believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be
> saved;

Of course people will believe, when they are raised up from their
graves, don't you think?
Wouldn't you?

>
> Salvation is not common grace any more than common wrath indicates
> that all are going to hell.
>
> > Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
>
> "My". A limiting factor, no? "They follow me." The follow through
> thought is that those who do not harken unto His voice or follow him
> are lost.
>
> > Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never
> > perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
>
> Matt. 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
> righteous into eternal life."
>
> I just don't get you use of these verses in John. Where is
> universalism being taught?

The word "eternal" in Matt. 25:46 might be better translated "eonian".
Youngs has "age-during". Jesus says no man can rob him of those who the
Father gave him. And later he says he draws all men to himself. "ALL
MEN" means the human race.

> >
> > Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no
> > man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
> >
> "No man cometh Me unless the Father draws him." Do you not see the
> distinquishing factors?

No man comes to Christ unless the Father draws him, but the Father is
only drawing some, at present. Eventually the Father will draw the rest
as well, as we can see from John 12:32, which says Christ will draw
*all men* to himself.

>
> > Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men
> > unto me.
> >
> Again, you must show from the context that "all" is meant to extend to
> every human who has ever lived.

Do you really think it excludes women and children?

>
> Rom. 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed.
> For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
>
> Paul's point is that there is a believing remnant within the ethnic
> family, Israel.
>
> Rom. 11:26 and thus all Israel will be saved. . . .
>
> If you require universal salvation here, you then make the Pauline
> argument of chapters 9-11 absurd. It makes all election absurd. It
> makes any sort of commitment absurd. Universalism is an absurd
> doctrine theologically.

No, because the Gentile believers are "graffed in" to Israel, the "good
olive tree", and so inherit the promises and are saved. That is what
Paul taught in these chapters.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now
obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your
mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might
have mercy upon all.

God's mercy means he will eventually save those who don't believe, as
he is "the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." 1 Ti
4:10

Doug


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