Re: Covenant
- From: Suzanne <sb.gerstner@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:38:39 -0800 (PST)
Kent wrote:
Perhaps Baha'is just don't know about other religions. I know scores,
if not hundreds, of pious, obdient, charitable, generous people of
lots of religions that have not yet seen in the Baha'i Faith the
qualities of God they see in their own religions.
I don't think any Baha'is are denying that there are good people in
other religions. Were we even discussing this? But since you mention
it, but, since you mention this, here is a quote attributed to 'Abdu'l-
Baha which I have always liked which talks about how:
"When asked on one occasion: "What is a Bahá'í?" Abdu'l-Bahá
replied: "To be a Bahá'í simply means to love all the
world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for
universal peace and universal brotherhood." On another occasion
He defined a Bahá'í as "one endowed with all the perfections
of man in activity." In one of His London talks He said
that a man may be a Bahá'í even if He has never heard the
name of Bahá'u'lláh. He added: --
The man who lives the life according to the teachings
of Bahá'u'lláh is already a Bahá'í. On the other hand, a
man may call himself a Bahá'í for fifty years, and if he
does not live the life he is not a Bahá'í. An ugly man may
call himself handsome, but he deceives no one, and a
72
black man may call himself white, yet he deceives no one,
not even himself.
(Dr. J.E. Esslemont, Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 71)
Kent wrote:
What does "recognition" look like? I think it looks like piousness,
obedience, charity and generosity.
Maybe. I would like to think so. The above quote seems to say that.
And yet other Writings say other things, and we need to try to
reconcile them all if we are to attempt to truly understand what the
Writings intend. This quote seems to say that good deeds aren't
enough. Conscious knowledge matters:
"Although a person of good deeds is acceptable at the Threshold of the
Almighty, yet it is first "to know," and then "to do." Although 383
a blind man produceth a most wonderful and exquisite art, yet he is
deprived of seeing it. Consider how most animals labor for man, draw
loads and facilitate travel; yet, as they are ignorant, they receive
no reward for this toil and labor. The cloud raineth, roses and
hyacinths grow; the plain and meadow, the garden and trees become
green and blossom; yet they do not realize the results and outcome of
all these. The lamp is lighted, but as it hath not a conscious
knowledge of itself, no one hath become glad because of it. Moreover,
a soul of excellent deeds and good manners will undoubtedly advance
from whatever horizon he beholdeth the lights radiating. Herein lies
the difference: By faith is meant, first, conscious knowledge, and
second, the practice of good deeds."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 382)
Kent wrote:
I think God doesn't care what name
He is called.
I also don't think God cares what name He is called. I do think He
cares, though, that people come to know His teachings for this Day.
Baha'u'llah compares humanity to a patient and Manifestation of God as
the Divine Physician. Each age has its own afflictions and only the
Physician (Baha'u'llah) has the prescription we need for this age. So
it does matter that people have a chance to hear about Baha'u'llah.
Whether or not they accept or want to know more is completely between
themselves and God, and no Baha'i should judge them. Our task is to
love and to serve and not to judge others.
Kent wrote:
And I think Baha'i responses to this issue are clear
proof that I am right.
I disagree. If you think that's true, then you have been
misunderstanding the Baha'is and perhaps you have also been
misunderstanding the Writings of the Faith. Baha'is believe what the
Central Figures of our Faith have said, and that is not one simple
statement, but many statements which need to be reconciled which have
a bearing on the subject of the Covenant. Because there isn't one
Covenant but several, as was mentioned earlier. You seem to not like
hearing about the Covenant of succession, but this is a central part
of the Baha'i Writings and is mentioned quite a lot by Baha'u'llah,
'Abdu'l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice. And
it's this Covenant, the Lesser Covenant, which will help us to retain
our unity and retain the purity of the Teachings.
Kent:
Nope. Shall I quote myself? Or will you believe me this time when I
repeat that striving means trying, not doing. But if it is your
position that striving means doing I am fine with striving.
My position is that it doesn't make any sense to either criticize or
have to defend the use of an innocent word like "striving", since it
is used hundreds of times in the Writings.
Kent wrote:
Only deeds count, even if the words we are talking about are
sacred Baha'i words.
I don't know that this is true. Words can have a huge effect on
people, and the word of God can be transformative:
"Every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God is endowed with
such potency as can instill new life into every human frame, if ye be
of them that comprehend this truth..."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 141)
Best wishes,
Suzanne
.
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