Re: Any answers to these questions? Religious Literalism???

On Dec 26, 9:53 am, Douglas McAdam <douglasmca...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Mike3
This whole discussion reminds me of my college philosophy 101 classes  
and I am forced to wonder what all this has to do with how we live our
 
lives, get along with others, etc.

The Writings are quite clear that God is an Unknowable Essence and His
 
attributes are known only through being Manifested to us by the  
Manifestation of God.  And we know those same Writings tell us that  
absoluteness is not something that applies to we limited human  
critters and that perfections are endless.  So why even bother  
thinking in terms of limitations, reductionist arguments etc.?


What about _non_-reductionist arguments? I want _understanding_ of
this.
Being able to understand things in _non_-reductionistic ways may be
useful
in other, less theoretical, discussions as well.

If God is All Powerful then He cannot create a rock that He cannot lift.
We are not all powerful and thus we can create things we cannot lift.


And He could lift it too, right? Even though it makes no _logical_
sense, but
God would not be limited by logic, for logic is a _creation_ of God
and God
is entirely, completely, totally unlimited.

So we who are not all powerful, who are limited, who suffer from  
imperfection and who cannot be absolute about anything are then trying
 
to fathom the unfathomless, the unknowable.  Sounds to me like a  
futile exercise and waste of time when we have all this suffering in  
the world to remedy and we do have the Remedy.


But one can't change other people and make them accept it.

peace,
doug

On Dec 25, 2008, at 7:47 PM, mike3 wrote:

On Dec 21, 9:49 am, mikera...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
So does that mean then that the religious texts are, in one sense, a
lie, because they "describe" God that way ("limitless", "all  
powerful",
"personal" God, etc. which are all "wrong" because they are just  
words f
rom
limited language)? But that maybe these "lies" are necessary  
because the
re is
nothing better that can be done with language?

 No because your are attempting to dissect it into its' parts,  
instead
of reading the whole.

But even as a whole, is it not still written in language? And you
yourself said
that the moment one tries to describe God in language, then one is
immediately
in error.

For example. One may describe God as capable of
anything and all powerful. So God being all powerful should be  
capable
of creating the rock that he cannot lift. If you exclude all else  
that
was written about God, then you are right, given these two  
parameters,
there is a flaw in our understanding of God.

What about given a whole lot MORE parameters, and which ones would
resolve the paradox?

The Baha'i writtings are
a collection to be taken as a whole, and to attempt to dissect it  
into
any one part in a reductionists' line of thinking (as is the western
way) you will find yourself imagining a God that can conceive of a
stone that he cannot lift.

But what additional things, when taken into account, would, and how
would,
they, resolve the paradox of the stone that cannot be lifted, or the
wall that
cannot be smashed, or whatever?

 Reductionism in the faith leads to either confusion or athiesm.

Then lets talk about it from something more than just reductionism.

The
Baha'i texts are meant to be understood in their entirety and become
meaningless when you attempt to cipher out individual parts. As a
whole it is the truth. This is why you can't pick and choose what you
want to believe as a Baha'i, you must accept the package, otherwise
you'll find nothing but the confusion being presented.


.

Relevant Pages

  • The God Paradox
    ... "Can God create a stone so heavy He can't lift it?" ... Since we have an apparent logical paradox, ...
    (sci.logic)
  • Re: The God Paradox
    ... "Can God create a stone so heavy He can't lift it?" ... It is postulated that God is omnipotent, so we deduce that He can: ... create a stone of any weight, lift a stone of any weight, and, by ...
    (sci.logic)
  • Re: Petersons Death Sentence
    ... If God is omnipotent he can give up his omnipotence. ... that rock he gives up his power to lift it. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: Petersons Death Sentence
    ... If God is omnipotent he can give up his omnipotence. ... that rock he gives up his power to lift it. ...
    (comp.os.linux.networking)
  • Re: The concept of god is a logical contradiction
    ... God is all powerful. ... he can do such a stone then... ... indeed, one could say that being able to create or uncreate the stone renders god still all powerful, even if he is unable to lift it temporarily. ... certainly if god can create a stone too massive to life, he can make the mass less while lifting, restoring the mass after, and no one would be the wiser. ...
    (sci.skeptic)
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