Re: Kingdom of Names


On Feb 1, 2008, at 7:10 AM, Kent Johnson wrote:

Hi Doug,

"Containing existence does not mean that what is contained is divine,
does it?"

I believe the issue is that the word that is capitalized must refer to God,
or one of His major attributes. In the case of "All", Susan is complaining
that God is not "all" because if He were everything, that would be
pantheism.

Dear Kent-
I did not interpret Susan's opinion as you say. I thought she was saying that God is not in His Creation for that would be pantheism. I'm also of the understanding that Creation can not be within God. God to me is completely separate from His Creation and His Creation is separate from God. We can create a chair but the chair is not within us materially, just as an idea. And we cannot become the chair. However no matter what analogy or logic we use we cannot really know God.

My point is that the Reality of God is a single reality, and there is
nothing that is not within this reality. There is nothing outside the
purview of God. His reality is above and encompasses our reality. The
example Abdu'l-Baha uses is the sun. Though we know there is more to the
sun than we can know, that does not mean the sun is not contained in the
same reality which contains us.

Guess I am sort of lost on this. To me the Writings are clear that God is a separate Reality that none can reach. The Manifestation is a separate reality that Creatures cannot reach and Creation is a separate reality consisting of material and spiritual aspects. We cannot know the reality of God nor the reality of the Manifestation but we can know the reality of Creation but not in the absolute sense for we cannot know the essence of anything.


The Light is stronger at one place and weaker at another it seems.

Because reality emanates from God does not mean He is His reality.

I do not understand. Can you clarify?

doug

--Kent

"Douglas McAdam" <douglasmcadam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:IcCdnWycP54esj_anZ2dnUVZ_u6rnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Jan 30, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Kent Johnson wrote:

If the word "all" were not capitalized it would not be pantheistic.

"Divinity is actual Truth and real existence, and not any representation
of
it. Divinity itself contains All, and is not contained. (Abdu'l-Baha,
Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 22)

Divinity contains real existence, everything, all that exists, and is not
contained.

--Kent

Dear friends-
Again I am somewhat confused at all this because of my understanding or
lack of understanding of pantheism I guess.

I have often reviewed SAQ on this subject and for some reason the idea
that if the word "all" were not capitalized it would not be pantheistic
doesn't fit for me.
Here is an excerpt from SAQ.
"Briefly, the superior reality does not descend nor abase itself to
inferior states; then how could it be that the Universal [296] Reality of
God, which is freed from all descriptions and qualifications,
notwithstanding Its absolute sanctity and purity, should resolve Itself
into the forms of the realities of the creatures, which are the source of
imperfections? This is a pure imagination which one cannot conceive.

On the contrary, this Holy Essence is the sum of the divine perfections;
and all creatures are favored by the bounty of resplendency through
emanation, and receive the lights, the perfection and the beauty of Its
Kingdom, in the same way that all earthly creatures obtain the bounty of
the light of the rays of the sun, but the sun does not descend and does
not abase itself to the favored realities of earthly beings."

I can see that the creation is imperfect and the Creator is perfect and
that Creation emanates from God, but I cannot see how all Creation can be
divine except in a relative sense. In other words all levels of Creation
are levels of emanation. The Light is stronger at one place and weaker at
another it seems.

Containing existence does not mean that what is contained is divine, does
it?

regards,
doug










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