Re: My original problem


On Jul 27, 2006, at 10:12 PM, smaneck@xxxxxxxxx wrote:


Douglas McAdam wrote:
Dear Susan and Gilberto-
Susan, I'm confused by your suggestion that they need to develop a new
science of hadith because you so often assert science cannot study
spiritual realities. Isn't the hadith considered spiritual?

Dear Doug,

I don't mean science as in natural science, I'm using it in the since
of Islamic sciences. which includes studying hadith, tafsir
(commentaries on the Qur'an), jurisprudence, etc.

Hi Susan-
Well I sort of thought that way too but I get confused about this science/religion issue because anytime I say science can and will someday study spiritual realities I get shot down because the term science is always felt to mean the study of natural phenomena and I'm referring to a new science that may someday study spiritual phenomena. Science, it seems to me has gone through evolutionary stages of development as you know and we use the method to study behavior too, such as psychology, sociology, and even a methodology to study history like you do and at one time there was a debate that social sciences are really not science. Even in natural sciences I almost feel that saying they cannot study anything else is sort of like Muslims insisting the because the Qur'an says the religion is perfected it means there can be no other religion and so because the scientific method has been perfected there is no other science to be discovered or developed.

Hadiths are oral accounts of what the Prophet was supposed to have said
and done. These were written down in collections such as al-Bukhari
centuries later after having been carried down orally. Traditionally
the validity of these hadiths is determined by studying the chain of
transmission or isnad. If those who transmitted this hadith are deemed
reliable witnesses, then the hadith is considered strong. If not, it is
called weak. What I'm suggesting is that there are now new methods that
can be used to ascertain the likelihood that hadiths depict an actual
event in the life of the prophet, methods derived from biblical
criticism, etc.

Yes, I was aware of what hadith is but thanks for the details for I never had it explained quite as nicely and concisely as this you offered. One of the things I have often wanted to ask you and other scholars who understand original language is about the authenticity of these hadith, the bible both the OT and NT which all their believers feel is the Word of God. Yet this Word of God is constantly being re-translated and interpreted. How is Baha'i different? We have the actual written words of Baha'u'llah and there are those that scribes wrote down as revealed but how are the scribes different than the chain of transmission in the hadith? I know many believe the Holy Word of God is protected and so it does not matter if it passed down from one to another for generations, like the bible.

Also Gilberto, how is it that if the religion of Islam is perfected as
you and Yassir often point out that there is a need for improvements.

We need improvement too. It doesn't mean Baha'u'llah's revelation was
less than perfect.

Well to me when Muhammad said this it Islam Religion with a capital R and what we need to improve is the small r type, or our interpretation and application of the big R.

regards,
doug


warmest, Susan


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hadith Science
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  • Re: My original problem
    ... Susan, I'm confused by your suggestion that they need to develop a new ... science of hadith because you so often assert science cannot study ... Isn't the hadith considered spiritual? ...
    (soc.religion.bahai)
  • Re: My original problem
    ... I'm confused by your suggestion that they need to develop a new science of hadith because you so often assert science cannot study spiritual realities. ... On Jul 27, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Gilberto Simpson wrote: ...
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