Re: Revealed Word/was Truth, essence and potential.

Douglas McAdam wrote:
Dear Albert-
Now this is what I call a proper Baha'i consultative post in which you even sort of disagree with me but it was done courteously and without any personally negative connotations and I am truly grateful after some of what I'm exposed to of late.

Please note I have snipped those that I need nor further clarification upon an will insert my comments on those I wish to examine more.


On Jul 26, 2006, at 10:38 PM, aj wrote:

Hi Doug,

That is an interesting question. Like anything else, we are looking at the Word of God as English speaking persons who have the benefit of the unerring interpretation of Shoghi Effendi in the majority of the translations.

However, one of the friends has often mentioned that even the Guardian said his translattions would be improved and that begs the question now of do we in the meantime go by his and obey his translations or do we debate and argue our own individual interpretations. I'm not saying this properly but what I mean is that often we will say the Guardian said thus and so and then another Baha'i will say, "but that translation even the Guardian said could be improved upon in the future."

I suppose that is true, however in my live time and the life time of my grand children that is not likely to happen. So for all *practical* purposes, Shoghi Effendi's translations are it. The question is when will the generality of the Baha'is progress spiritually far enough to surpass the gift of the Station of Shoghi Effendi, namely as the unerring interpreter of the 'Word of God' and who also happened to be a translator. His skills as a translator maybe surpassed, yet who will step forward to say they will ever match him in interpretation of the Word of God in this dispensation. Answer? Nobody.


Any Manifestation of the Word of God is using a language common to His audience and painting a concept foreign to them. Any Manifestation is a Creator of **new worlds**, so yes they are talking of concepts which are not purely intellectual, fore it is said that any person can understand it and benefit from it. The Word of God is conveying and making connections to faculties designed into the human soul and we are told that the human soul is a reality which we will never understand.

I think the Beloved Master named or identified those faculties as the animal or physical senses, the human intellect which consists of reason, imagination, memory, comprehension or thought and a common faculty and also our faith and intuition. He also said the mind is the power of the soul and that true faith is conscious knowledge so that to me indicates our capacity or power of faith enables us to believe in an Enlightener and what is being revealed and we are duty bound to examine and validate or invalidate by experience by the use of our senses and intellect to gain conscious knowledge ergo true faith.

'Abdu'-Baha identified "imagination, thought, comprehension, memory, the common faculty" as spiritual qualities, not physical qualities. They are thus qualities inherent in the soul, which is eternal. The common faculty is the point of interaction with the world, an inter phase so to speak. An other way of looking at it would be to say can one be intellectual or rational without "imagination, thought, comprehension, memory"? Can one imagine a *mind* without "imagination, thought, comprehension, memory"?

"But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished, and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets." (Abdu'l-Baha, BWF p. 316)




So this is what I do. I take note of which word is used, why it is there since the deletion of which still would grammatically serve the sentence and I wonder. I meditate reflect and discus with others and some times way into the future the "penny drops" so to speak.

Yes, and there may be cases where this quote or that quote might fit several different categories.

SNIP



Not sure about this Albert. Isn't there a quote saying the mind will not go forward. I am familiar with a quote saying the mind is the power of the soul. Also in the next world are we not subject to only obedience for there is no free will? Or maybe we go forward to the endless worlds of God in the first or next world as a spiritual mineral or something and the spiritual evolutionary process might coincide with the process here on earth for after all what we have here is but a reflection of the next world.

According to Bahá'u'lláh the soul retains its individuality and consciousness after death, and is able to commune with other souls. This communion, however, is purely spiritual in character, and is conditioned upon the disinterested and selfless love of the individuals for each other.

Written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, dated March 10, 1936

(Compilations, NSA USA - Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities)




We are spiritual beings associated with a form best suited to the world we live in. I do not subscribe to a duality of being. Like, we inwardly except but outwardly reject. Our soul was created Baha'u'llah tells us to recognize it's Maker, we are beings that have choice. Will we allow conventionality, tradition, hate or love to sway us from recognition and there by suppressing this basic quality? This is the choice of which The Day of Judgment is all about.

We are always one Spiritual being, which changes by the choices we make.



On this we disagree somewhat for it is obvious the Writings sustain the idea of duality, of a lower and higher nature, at least that is my understanding. Also have you even told someone a truth and had them reject it and you and then later they come back and tell you the same thing? That to me proves there is an outer conditioned personal whose personal views are acquired whereas the soul as revealed knowledge and the physical body has innate knowledge. I see that we have different planes of awareness or levels of awareness and each has its ceiling level of consciousness. For example the physical or animal level has the innate body wisdom and tactile senses and the human level has the intellectual capacity or power to know that also depends on the senses but a still higher power or capacity called faith and intuition and that intellect can be utilize for both lower or higher goals, for spiritual development or ego glorification.
This to me is why we must teach in a certain fashion, in a process of gaining friendsip, removing blockages to learning and cautiously pull aside the veils. I understand the Greatest Name, when uttered has a profound effect on all Creation. So apparently does the Revelation of God have an effect on Creation even though we don't always be conscious of it. I truly believe this Revelation is somehow in the Cosmic Consciousness and sensitive souls tune into it but what they produce comes from the own human consciousness whereas having direct access to the Writings would produce better results.

So we first must recognize and accept and then be obedient but the fact is our cultural and other conditioning often gives us a set of beliefs that hinder this recognition, learning and obedience and so we must re-educate mankind somehow by teaching the Faith in many ways unique to unique individuals.

We must not sugar coat the importance about the Day of Judgment.
"This is the Ocean that moveth by the power of Thy sovereign might, and whose waves the influence of the infidels that have disbelieved in the Judgment Day can never still." (Baha'u'llah, P & M, p. 153)

I agree and hope I did not come across as sugar coating by mentioning the duality idea. We all have an outer person which differs from the inner that we do not wish to expose. We also seem to have a higher and lower aspect to ourselves, or the animal and divine or spiritual level. Or how about the idea that we are a work in process and thus the "real" or "virtuous person" is evolving gradually as we strip away the ego stuff and expose the soul more fully?


CVIII. "We have a fixed time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you!" (Gleanings p. 214)

Yes, but I also feel that if the Writings say we are to know and worship God then we all have this capacity to do so and it is a matter of how we are educated, trained or conditioned and how we exercise our God given powers to know and love.
How often have we read stories of criminals, prostitutes, addicts, etc. who then were converted to the Faith and led virtuous lives. If people do not have the benefit of hearing God's latest Revelation I don't think they are accountable are they?

Thanks again Albert,
doug




Regards,

Albert


Regards,

Albert

.

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