Re: One Common Faith

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:05:50 CST, "Kent Johnson" <kent@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Bill Pike" <w.h.pike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uqaiv1ho0d68tejmbd4juuqfm20794eb0b@xxxxxxxxxx

A person achieves "Spirituality" by following a virtuous life, spirituality
doesn't bring about virtue, however virtue does bring about spirituality<

You may be right about that, Bill. But that would mean that people don't
recognize spirituality. I mean, if I can't seek spirituality without
changing behavior then why the heck would I seek spirituality? It is like
saying "I want to change my behavior", not "I want of find God". If I want
to find God, how will I find out that I have to change my behavior in order
to find Him?
1836. Points Towards the Attainment of True Spirituality--Spiritual
Exercises of Prayer and Meditation
"These points, expressed in other words, have already been conveyed to
the friends ... by the Counsellors, but the House of Justice wishes to
stress them, because they represent the path towards the attainment of
true spirituality that has been laid down by the Manifestation of God
for this age.
"It is striking how private and personal the most fundamental
spiritual exercises of prayer and meditation are in the Faith. Baha'is
do, of course, have meetings for devotions, as in the
Mashriqu'l-Adhkar or at Nineteen Day Feasts, but the daily obligatory
prayers are ordained to be said in the privacy of one's chamber, and
meditation on the Teachings is, likewise, a private individual
activity, not a form of group therapy. In His talks Abdu'l-Baha
describes prayer as 'conversation with God', and concerning meditation
He says that 'while you meditate you are speaking with your own
spirit. In that state of mind you put certain questions to your spirit
and the spirit answers: the light breaks forth and the reality is
revealed!'"

People change behavior to seek spirituality, I have done that myself. But I
need to know that first step.
If you have done it why are you asking me? <grin>

Maybe I am not asking the question correctly,
but what I need to know is what people are seeking in a church, synagog,
mosque, Baha'i meeting....
You can seek spirituality in many ways but it is ever a result never a
cause.
What is it they are seeking, if it is not
spirituality, and how can they know if they have found it? Is changing
behavior the only way?
No, you also have to change your heart as well. When you find it you
will know it but by then it will not be important.

If I have changed my behavior I am now spiritual?
I have no way of judging that, that has to fall on you. I would say
that if you were truly spiritual you would have no need to ask and if
you had to ask you would not be truly spiritual.

When I ask non-Baha'is I have no problem getting very cogent answers.
Yes like say 40 'Hail Marys" a day and $200 in the poor box a week and
always pay your pew rent. Or give us your life savings and work the
rest of your life for us without pay and we will take care of you.

If you have been reading anything I have been involved with on theSRB you see
how hard it is to get answers from Baha'is. Many churches in the area are
very good at evoking spirituality in their membership, many are not so good.
I sincerely doubt that, I would suggest that you rethink your
definition of "spirituality". Looks to me like endorphins kicking in.
But I think Baha'is should be able to identify and to some extent
define
spirituality if that is what we have to offer.
From your discussion it appears that you looking for a "quick fix",
"Instant Spirituality"? Take three of Baha'u'llah's tablets a day for
99 days and you will be spiritual?

Sounds to me like you have westernitus,"An instant fix for everything
without any effort on your part." "I have gotten hooked on smack, go
in the hospital for a night and they knock me out and I wake up
clean." Shoot the 'roids and bulk up like Arnold, don't worry about
'roid rage.
Walk up to the front and get right with God, be forgiven and become a
instant saint. Go down to the freeway and stand infront of a semi'
rolling at 70 mph toward you, God will protect you.

If we are not offering spirituality to seekers, what is it we are offering?
(beyond the Writings, I mean.)
I would say the Writings are quite a bit. I would say what the Baha'is
offer is a real fix, not a quick fix, but a fix that comes from within
not without. A path that results in a total change of outlook toward
being human not animal. A path that leads to self-realization not
self-indulgence. Looks to me like you are engaging in self-indulgance.

Do you have any other way of showing forth the virtues that 'Abdul
Baha says that we should that a Baha'i will show forth?
paraphrase:"If a Baha'i walks down the street it should be obvious to
all those around them the they are a Baha'i, as their demeanor,
humility, character, and appearance are those of a Baha'i."

Pax Terra
Ye shall know them by their fruits: Matt. 7:16
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance": Gal. 5

.

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