Re: Boys' education funds unveiled to reduce gender gap


Ben wrote:
> Hyerdahl wrote:
> > Ben wrote:
> > > Hyerdahl wrote:
> > > > Ben wrote:
> > > > > (edit)
> > > >
> > > > > > Just give each child a budget. They and their parents can decide how
> > > > > > to spend it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Right after you show me how sports programs shortchange the girls in
> > > > > the classrooms.
> > > > >
> > > > > > >I don't have to Ben; how equal is too equal?
> > >
> > > Your entire argument is that the girls are being shortchanged. Tell me
> > > how. And tell me why it's only the girls.
> > > > > >
Monetarily. That's how.


> > > > > > > > >> Boys don't get special rights for falling behind.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No one is asking for it. I want equal support for the boys.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then show me the support girls are getting that boys are not. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are you going to tell me what you'll accept as proof?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I already did.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, not really. All you're telling me is that you'll only accept
> > > > > gender feminist 'studies'--it doesn't take Karnak to figure out what
> > > > > those will say. Were you surprised by the results of studies done by
> > > > > tobacco companies?
> > > >
> > > > I told you I'd accept any govt. sponsored study not proposed by a male
> > > > rights group, NOW, or the Independent Women's Forum (they aren't
> > > > independent.) etc.
> > >
> > > Okay, then which sponsors would be acceptable to you? And why does it
> > > have to be a government study?
> >
> > Govt. studies are the most difficult to pretend existence of space
> > ships landing on circle crops and they have several people running them
> > so they are less inclined to contain bias. And, you haven't even
> > presented me with a study from any other credible group.
>
> That's right, I haven't. Given your response history, I don't waste my
> time with requests like this from you.

Then you lose the debate. If you provide me with a valid govt. study
or even a study by some non-reliigous, non-men's group, I'll be happy
to look at. If you provide an actual study, and a quote from it,
indicating that girls are getting educational perks boys are not
getting. You would have the moral high ground, if I won't read it. :-)
The problem you have is that you can't get milk from a rock. There is
no study.


I *did* tell you where to find> them. It should be unbelievably easy
for you to prove me a liar by
> simply going and looking where I told you to look...assuming I'm lying.

I'm assuming nothing. You have not provided a quote from a valid
study, nor have you cited one. Telling a person to go yahoo is NOT
proof of any sort.
>
>(edit)>
> True, but when you donate money you're allowed to pick a cause. :-)
> > >
> > > Which brings us back to prioritizing and favoring.
> >
> > No, it means that women are out there raising money for what THEY want
> > to support. Where are the men?
>
> As far as raising money from private donors, men just aren't as
> inclined to do this as women are, for whatever reasons.
>>
So, better get crakin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Women die younger from breast cancer than men of prostate, AND men get
> > > > > > breast cancer.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why> > not put forth effort in those areas? I guess men are not as inspired
> > > > > > > > to do fundraisers?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They may not be, but it probably has little to do with lack of
> > > > > > > inspiration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure it does. Get crackin, Ben. Before I leave in Jan. please provide
> > > > > >
> > > > > > . some source of discrimination against boys
> > > > >
> > > > > Title IX. Tell me again how many girls sports programs were
> > > > > dismantled? Also, are we drugging the girls at the same clip we're
> > > > > drugging the boys?
> >
> > Parents, along with doctors decide what drugs children should have;
> > it's not up to you, Ben.
>
> Parents rely far too much on "expert" opinion, and sometimes will do or
> approve of things that they wouldn't do otherwise, simply because some
> authority figure recommended it.

Ah, but so what? There's no problem at all with informing parents, and
there has been media attention provided about Ridalin.....so, there you
go. As to recommendations, I have no problem at all with parents of
children who disrupt the classroom, homeschooling or providing
independent study. It's all good.
>
> > It's not my fault if the parents of unruly boys decide to opt for drugs in order to keep them in school. Why> shoot the messenger here?
>
> Why would you think I'm shooting the messenger when I'm commenting on
> the message?

I'm telling you that it isn't feminism that's pushing drugs on these
kids. It's their own parents.
>
> >> > >
> > > > > > . some source of special rights allotted to girls
> > > > >
> > > > > I never claimed special rights, only more attention and resources.
> > > >
> > > > Translation: You can't prove unequal rights so you use platitutdes?
> > > > Good to know.
> > >
> > > I'm just trying to ease your confusion. I never said anything about
> > > special rights.
> >
> > Sure you did. You clearly stated that you wanted boys to have equal
> > rights, and when I mentioned that boys already had equal rights....you
> > backtracked.
>
> I did? Somehow I doubt that. My comments were on attention and
> resources, not rights.

You're still backtracking, Ben. It's there in black and white for all
to go back and see. Boys have equal rights.
> >
> > >
> > > > Are> you seriously going to try and deny that there are more programs
> > > > for> > > girls than boys? How many men's resource centers do you see on
> > > > > campuses?
> > > >
> > > > Resource Centers are sponsored by clubs, volunteers, and contributions,
> > > > BEN.
> > >
> > > So if I can show you that these organizations get money and resources
> > > from universities and from student dollars, you'll concede that I'm
> > > right?
> >
> > Grant money is handled on the same principle, Ben. If you have a
> > volunteer organization that requests funding, that organization can get
> > available funding. The problem you bitter boys have is that men are
> > not VOLUNTEERING and, thus, don't qualify for matching funds, or space
> > for their activities. Do you see how this works now?
>
> I see it doesn't answer my question, so it remains: will you or won't
> you?

Sure it does answer your question. Those who volunteer and start
organizations may be qualified to receive funding for them. For
example, in my youngest son's last public school experience, there were
5 kids who wanted to start a special science group for making bots, and
entering them in competitions.
These kids and their parents and a couple of teachers started meeting
after school to do this and one of the teachers applied for some
scholarship money to help the group purchase supplies. They needed at
least 12 kids so the kids went about soliciting their classmates to
join the group, and 'voila' funding.

>>
> > > > Sports programs are paid for with education money.
> > >
> > > Sports programs are paid for by tax dollars, as approved by the voters.
> >
> > Sports funds come from the same funds from which educational dollars
> > are drawn. Most public schools are funded thru property taxes, with
> > the rich providing more endowed schools than the poor. But paying
> > English teachers is funded the same way the football team is funded.
> > :-)
>
> As are all the municipal workers in any given jurisdiction. You gloss
> over my point--if the voters didn't see any value to sports programs,
> they wouldn't vote for the budget.

Fathers wanting to see football games on the weekends are not in
school. And so few boys to men become football players that it isn't
worth the tax dollars going into it. I know a dad who loved to watch
his son play football, and his son was injured in the program, so much
so, that now his son is all but braindead. This father is now lobbying
AGAINST football in schools as there are so many other things more
needed, like exercise for health, nutrition eduction, music, art, etc.
In fact, he feels that public schools would be better off building
swimming pools so that ALL the students get opportunity instead of a
few jocks.

Voters manage to keep the> principles separate and distinct. And,
mothers see the value in sports
> programs as well as fathers.

Mothers want to keep their boys involved in education. Pretending that
their sons are going to earn big bucks playing football is like winning
the lottery. :-) There are simply better choices out there.

>> >
> > > I would bet you a large sum of money right now that if every single
> > > program not directly related to the classroom were to be removed, the
> > > excess money would either be eliminated from the budget or the
> > > teacher's unions would try and get it for their members.
> >
> > The schools could simply show what money was being spent in total, and
> > divi that up per student. Of course, teachers are the most underpaid
> > professionals, for their educational dollar, which is why you really
> > have to love kids if you're a teacher. But I'm ok with keeping the
> > per student dollar apart from the teacher salaries.
> >
> > > > If you don't like sharing, get it out of the schools.
> > >
> > > I share fine, Hy--I'm not the one taking programs apart to satisfy some
> > > immature notion of 'equality'.
> >
> > Equality is not an "immature notion", but.
>
> As applied by feminists, it certainly can be.

How equal is too equal when it comes to funding?
>
> > In fact, it's a principle
> > for which the western world is most fond. I suggest that bitter boys
> > like you find it "immature" only when women demand it. :-)
>
> I notice you snipped the two examples I gave you of 'equality' vs
> 'fairness', and gee, one of them involved a MAN making an immature
> demand. What were you afraid of?

Are you talking about insurance policies based on the free market
rather than tax collected dollars for educaiton? It wasn't valid.> >
> > >
> > >> > >
> > > > > Right after you show me how the girls are shortchanged in the
> > > > > classrooms, which is what you're claiming.
> > > >
> > > > Equal funding already the moral high road here, Ben. :-)
> > >
> > > Fairness would be the moral high road, Hy.
> >
> > Equal funding IS fairness, Ben.
>
> Clearly, it's not.

Clearly it is....and no matter what patterns of male greed you go thru,
I will call you on that.
>
> > >
> > > > I don't have> > to show that slaves were shortchanged in order to show that slavery is
> > > > wrong either.
> > >
> > > I can show the slaves were shortchanged. Show me the girls were.
> >
> > Girls are shortchanged in the four corners of the document giving boys
> > more funding. I don't need to go any further than that.
>
> You do if you want to prove your point.

No. Money talks, Ben. If boys are getting more educational funding
that isn't fair.


But you can't. So noted. Tell you what--I'll even accept you telling
me where to go and look for
> the material, you don't even have to bring it here.

I wasn't about to go anywhere for it. As usual, you simply failed to
prove your point.
>
> > All I need to
> > do is show the bottom line, just like for any other issue where the
> > funding is not equal.
>
> There's more to life than the bottom line, Hy. I would have thought
> you would have grasped that by now. Show me the boys in the classrooms
> are getting more than the girls in the classrooms.

They're getting more funding, Ben. That's all I need to show.
>
> > You should really try this logic with the IRS
> > ...Ben. Try to explain to them that just because line "X" does not
> > equal line "Y"....that he is just using immature notions of equality.
> > :-)
>
> Apples and oranges. Come back when you have a valid comparison.

Asked and answered. I'd sure hate to be your accountant. ;-)

.

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