Re: Boys' education funds unveiled to reduce gender gap


Ben wrote:
> Hyerdahl wrote:
> > Ben wrote:
> > > (edit)
> >
> > > > Just give each child a budget. They and their parents can decide how
> > > > to spend it.
> > >
> > > Right after you show me how sports programs shortchange the girls in
> > > the classrooms.
> > >
> > > > >I don't have to Ben; how equal is too equal?
>
> Your entire argument is that the girls are being shortchanged. Tell me
> how. And tell me why it's only the girls.
> > > >
> > > > > > >> Boys don't get special rights for falling behind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No one is asking for it. I want equal support for the boys.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then show me the support girls are getting that boys are not. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you going to tell me what you'll accept as proof?
> > > > >
> > > > I already did.
> > >
> > > Well, not really. All you're telling me is that you'll only accept
> > > gender feminist 'studies'--it doesn't take Karnak to figure out what
> > > those will say. Were you surprised by the results of studies done by
> > > tobacco companies?
> >
> > I told you I'd accept any govt. sponsored study not proposed by a male
> > rights group, NOW, or the Independent Women's Forum (they aren't
> > independent.) etc.
>
> Okay, then which sponsors would be acceptable to you? And why does it
> have to be a government study?

Govt. studies are the most difficult to pretend existence of space
ships landing on circle crops and they have several people running them
so they are less inclined to contain bias. And, you haven't even
presented me with a study from any other credible group.

>> >
> > > > > > > > It would be a little like giving men special health care rights because they exhibit
> > > > > > > > riskier behavior and then take tax money to correct it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A better analogy would be dollars spent on prostate cancer as opposed
> > > > > > > to those spent on breast cancer. Men and women are both at risk, but
> > > > > > > breast cancer is prioritized.
> > > >
> > > > No, women raise $$$$$ FOR IT. Where are the men? And, can't men prove
> > > > up need in grant writing?
> > >
> > > They probably could, if they were more inclined to do so. But given
> > > the amount of research that shows the prostate cancer risk for men is
> > > significant, why do they have to lobby for equal funding?

I guess for the same reason women do, for breast cancer. Even the
Lillith Faire donated money to breast cancer research.
> > >
> > > > > > Breast cancer is sponsored thru grant money and private donations.
> > > > >
> > > > > If those organizations make more money available for breast cancer
> > > > > research and treatment, then there isn't as much available for prostate
> > > > > cancer.
> >
> > True, but when you donate money you're allowed to pick a cause. :-)
>
> Which brings us back to prioritizing and favoring.

No, it means that women are out there raising money for what THEY want
to support. Where are the men?
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > Women die younger from breast cancer than men of prostate, AND men get
> > > > breast cancer.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Why> > not put forth effort in those areas? I guess men are not as inspired
> > > > > > to do fundraisers?
> > > > >
> > > > > They may not be, but it probably has little to do with lack of
> > > > > inspiration.
> > > >
> > > > Sure it does. Get crackin, Ben. Before I leave in Jan. please provide
> > > >
> > > > . some source of discrimination against boys
> > >
> > > Title IX. Tell me again how many girls sports programs were
> > > dismantled? Also, are we drugging the girls at the same clip we're
> > > drugging the boys?

Parents, along with doctors decide what drugs children should have;
it's not up to you, Ben. It's not my fault if the parents of unruly
boys decide to opt for drugs in order to keep them in school. Why
shoot the messenger here?

> > >
> > > > . some source of special rights allotted to girls
> > >
> > > I never claimed special rights, only more attention and resources.
> >
> > Translation: You can't prove unequal rights so you use platitutdes?
> > Good to know.
>
> I'm just trying to ease your confusion. I never said anything about
> special rights.

Sure you did. You clearly stated that you wanted boys to have equal
rights, and when I mentioned that boys already had equal rights....you
backtracked.
>
>
> > Are> you seriously going to try and deny that there are more programs
> > for> > > girls than boys? How many men's resource centers do you see on
> > > campuses?
> >
> > Resource Centers are sponsored by clubs, volunteers, and contributions,
> > BEN.
>
> So if I can show you that these organizations get money and resources
> from universities and from student dollars, you'll concede that I'm
> right?

Grant money is handled on the same principle, Ben. If you have a
volunteer organization that requests funding, that organization can get
available funding. The problem you bitter boys have is that men are
not VOLUNTEERING and, thus, don't qualify for matching funds, or space
for their activities. Do you see how this works now?

> > Sports programs are paid for with education money.
>
> Sports programs are paid for by tax dollars, as approved by the voters.

Sports funds come from the same funds from which educational dollars
are drawn. Most public schools are funded thru property taxes, with
the rich providing more endowed schools than the poor. But paying
English teachers is funded the same way the football team is funded.
:-)

> I would bet you a large sum of money right now that if every single
> program not directly related to the classroom were to be removed, the
> excess money would either be eliminated from the budget or the
> teacher's unions would try and get it for their members.

The schools could simply show what money was being spent in total, and
divi that up per student. Of course, teachers are the most underpaid
professionals, for their educational dollar, which is why you really
have to love kids if you're a teacher. But I'm ok with keeping the
per student dollar apart from the teacher salaries.

> > If you don't like sharing, get it out of the schools.
>
> I share fine, Hy--I'm not the one taking programs apart to satisfy some
> immature notion of 'equality'.

Equality is not an "immature notion", but. In fact, it's a principle
for which the western world is most fond. I suggest that bitter boys
like you find it "immature" only when women demand it. :-)

>
>> > >
> > > Right after you show me how the girls are shortchanged in the
> > > classrooms, which is what you're claiming.
> >
> > Equal funding already the moral high road here, Ben. :-)
>
> Fairness would be the moral high road, Hy.

Equal funding IS fairness, Ben.
>
> > I don't have> > to show that slaves were shortchanged in order to show that slavery is
> > wrong either.
>
> I can show the slaves were shortchanged. Show me the girls were.

Girls are shortchanged in the four corners of the document giving boys
more funding. I don't need to go any further than that. All I need to
do is show the bottom line, just like for any other issue where the
funding is not equal. You should really try this logic with the IRS
....Ben. Try to explain to them that just because line "X" does not
equal line "Y"....that he is just using immature notions of equality.
:-)

.

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