Re: Making The Male Birth Control Pill


Hyerdahl wrote:
> rdubose@xxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > > You're assuming a lack of male hatred toward female power.
> >
> >
> > The essential fact about the relationship between Germanic peoples
> > and the Roman Empire is that the Germans wanted in. When they got a
> > good look at the benefits of civilization (paved roads, running water,
> > hot baths) they basically said, "*** this primitive ***!!!" Many wars
> > were fought along the nothern frontiers. Mostly, the Romans fought to
> > keep the Germans out. In the last centuries of the Empire, a huge
> > porportion of the Army and public service was made up of grateful
> > ex-Germans.
> > It is always this way. When primitive societies come into contact
> > with a technologically more advanced one, the bulk of the more
> > primitives want in. Given a choice, comparatively few American Indians
> > preferred fighting to keep the old ways. The wanted steel pots and
> > repeating rifles.
>
> If you were correct, it would stand to reason that we should pummel the
> fundamentalist with our advanced technology rather than bombing them,
> but it is obviously more important to them to control their women. :-)


I think that this indeed would be the case if it were not for oil
money flowing like water into these societies. Billons of hard cash put
into the hands of backward people does not happen very often. When it
does, strange distortions result. If it were not for oil income, Saudi
Arabia would have long ago been compelled to join the modern world or
fade into complete irrelevancy. One could say the same thing about
Islamic societies in general. All totalled, their GNP (manufacturing,
etc.) is pretty insignificant.
One could argue that they would have better off, over the long term,
if they had to make do without the quick, un-earned fix of oil-cash.

> So it was with the pre-Christian fundies back then.

I really do not know what you mean here. Do you mean Norse?Celtic
fundamentalists? My understanding is that their religions did not
support doctrinal certainty.








> >
> > All things
> > > female-goddess centered ...that could have been destroyed WERE
> > > destroyed as indicated in the Christian Old Testament. It would have
> > > been similar with any other Norse, gods in order to perfect the notion
> > > of one true male god.
> >
> >
> > Yawn... These sort of societies always collapse and involute, along
> > with their dieties, when they bump into something more advanced.
>
> So, if that were true, why are we at war with Islamic fundies? Why
> can't we simply pummel them with technology? :-)
> The answer is that your theory doesn't hold true when men want control
> over women.


That backward Arabs have strange ideas about women would not matter
much if their societies had to earn their own way in the modern world.
Besides, Islam, per se, has displayed a wide range of sentiment
towards women. For a long time, in the middle ages, Islamic lands were
a comparative paradise for women.
The extreme case of Arab lands is traceable, in my opinion, to the
very harsh conditions of the desert and a perilous nature of a herder,
gather economy. Women in that place demanded a lot of sequestration -
which, as always, meant especially locking up the pretty ones to the
benefit of the ugly. (The veil and the burka).



>
> >
> >
> > And, there are artifacts left.
> > >
> > > You can actually see some of the runes at the Shetland Museum
> > >
> > > http://www.shetland-museum.org.uk/collection ...
> > > rchaeology/ogham_and_runic.htm
> > >
> > > "Ogham (or Ogam) was invented in Ireland sometime before AD 400 and
> > > seems to have been introduced into Pictland by the 7th century. Its
> > > advantage was the ease with which the letters could be cut into wood or
> > > stone, and it was frequently used for memorial stones, as shown below."
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >that would have been a
> > > > > >lot of work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not really. My kids use the runic letters to write lengthy secret messages.
> > > > > They think it's fun. The 24-letter Futhark lends itself very well to
> > > > > written language as we know it.
> > >
> > > Sure. While some of the mysticism went underground for many years, the
> > > runes were still a langauge and only linear thinking bitter boys would
> > > say otherwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > rdubose wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >Indeed, theirs was a fundamentally pre-literate culture which is why
> > > > > >everything written about them (or attributed to them)was editted by
> > > > > >literate christian folk.
> > >
> > > Calling a people "pre-literate" is what is easier to do that looking at
> > > the facts. They were on their way to becoming more literate as they
> > > were killed by the fundamentalists of their generation, i.e. those
> > > bitter boys trying to control the women of their time.
> > >
> > >
> > > >> We don't know how many stones and how many wooden objects were destroyed by
> > > > > zealous Christians who believed runic symbols to be devilish things. I
> > > > > would hate to dwell on the massive amounts of Germanic literature that was
> > > > > destroyed...the wealth of knowledge about their culture, customs and
> > > > > beliefs.
> > >
> > > Sure.
> > > >
> > > > But it is just speculation whether this literature ever existed in
> > > > any quantity.
> > >
> > > It doesn't have to exist in quantity for her to make her point, Ralph.
> > > The folks of that time were evolving, and when a language starts its
> > > course, it makes sense that fewer people use it and then more and
> > > more. That's how our own language began. But if you kill a people off
> > > before they have a chance to evolve that language, all bets are off,
> > > eh?
> > >
> > > It is a similar question to the one about the state of
> > > > civilization in the Americas before Columbus and smallpox. It is too
> > > > easy for folks today to make up scenarios about how they lived. That is
> > > > what sucks about having a non-literate culture. Your history will
> > > > always be written by your enemies.
> > >
> > > That's only partly true. Today, we are finding all kinds of artifacts
> > > from all kinds of peoples. When you consider that, along with DNA
> > > testing, we can derive all sorts of new information the winners of war
> > > may not wish you to know. When new science is founded or new
> > > information derived, Republicans are prone to call that "revisionist
> > > history". :-) They sure screamed when we exposed George Washington
> > > and Thomas Jefferson for the users they were.>
> > > > >
> > > > >(edit)
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > If there were to be a continuum described for languages in regard to
> > > > their usefulness at recording mundane details accurately and
> > > > efficiently, modern English would be at one end and runic would be near
> > > > the other. It certainly did not do well in the cultural competition
> > > > with christian forms of literacy.
> > >
> > > The pre-Christian 'one-male-god' movement killed many and destroyed
> > > much before it could have developed as our language. IOW, we will
> > > never know what import it could have had. However, I'm satisfied with
> > > the languages we have now, and see value in remembering the massacre of
> > > these people in the language we now have.
> >
> > > > (edit)
> > > > >> >
> > > > > > It has been generally accepted that no Norse writing has been found
> > > > > >older than the 9th century and the Viking age was over soon after that.
> > > > > >So yeah, almost everything about their written culture is conjecture at
> > > > > >this point.
> > > > >
> > > > > The link I provided claims 3rd-century. Archeologists, however, have found
> > > > > even older runic stones and etchings.
> > >
> > > Sure, but Ralph would rather pretend they didn't exist at all. :-)
> > > >
> > > > I said Norse writing. Obviously runic writing per se was very
> > > > ancient and widespread. Nordic stuff was either very limited to begin with or the early christians got extremely lucky in wiping it all out.
> > >
> > > Luck had little to do with it. They DID wipe much of it out. But not
> > > all and what is left is more than enough for proof of the Runes and the
> > > language they represent.
> > >
> > > (edit)
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Heidi

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