Re: Was there ever a Japanese Defector?

wjhopwood@xxxxxxx wrote:
On 7 Aug, 23:32, David H Thornley <da...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[lots of nonspecific statements deleted]

You have provided some rather vague information that was collected
from documents written by people who had good reason not to be
thinking clearly, as shown by a number of people who weren't at
the time.

So, they weren't thinking clearly, huh? Who were these dumbbells?
Gosh, I wonder how we won that war.

How did we win the war? We got over panic, and people started thinking
more or less clearly again.

Immediately after Pearl Harbor, you can find all sorts of confusion
and overestimation of the Japanese. Pacific Fleet didn't get to
anything resembling a fighting state until Nimitz had arrived and had
some time to get things organized. There were fears of invasion on
the West Coast, which make no objective sense at all. The handful
of submarine bombardments created a thoroughly disproportionate
reaction.

You may have missed my words "at the time".

Do all the people on your planet place implicit trust in high-ranking
NSA officials? Just asking.

Your low opinion ot many who served in high places in WWII certainly
shows but what do you have against the NSA?

Nothing in particular, now that I know what their role was in the DES
standard, but I see no reason to think that somebody is to be absolutely
trusted because they were in a high position there.

In particular, I'm not going to believe what somebody said about WWII
just because he was a high-ranking officer in the NSA. That is
something of an impressive achievement, but doesn't guarantee accuracy
or objectivity.

In the meantime, if you could provide one of the MAGIC decrypts
that supports your position, or at least a description in sufficient
detail, it would be very helpful.

OK Here's one for you to pick nits with:

Thank you. It turns out to be exactly what I was expecting.

Excerpt of Summary No. 174 of May 9,1941 Message# 067,
page A-99: From DOD Publ. "The 'MAGIC' Background of Pearl Harbor)

"From Los Angeles (Nakauchi)
To: Tokyo (Aaimudaijin)

"...With regard to airplane manufacturing plants and other military
establishments..we plan to establish very close relations with various
organizations and in strict secrecy have them keep these military
establishments under close surveillance. Through such means we hope
to ...obtain accurate and detailed intelligence reports. We have
already established contacts with absolutely reliable Japanee in the
San Pedro and San Diego area who will keep a close watch on all
shipments of airplanes and other war materials, and report the amounts
and destination of such shipments. We shall maintain connection with
our second generation(Nisei) who are at present in the U.S.Army, to
keep us informed of various developments in the Army. We also have
connections with our second generation (Nisei) working in airplane
plants for intelligence purposes..."

Okay, let's look at some of the words. For military establishments,
"we plan to", "we hope to". "We have already established contacts
[of what nature] with absolutely reliable Japanese", "We shall maintain
connection [of what sort] with our second generation".

On and on.

There is absolutely nothing specific here. The first half is vague
ideas as to what it would be nice to do. The conclusion is
that they hope to accomplish something. The second half
describes "contacts" and "connections" with unnamed Japanese
and Nisei. No suggestion of what the contacts and connections
really mean, no hint of quantity, nothing.

This is absolutely indistinguishable from somebody spinning a line
of hooey to not look bad to a superior. It is a proof of nothing.
It is an indication that some Japanese wanted to not report
failure, nothing more.

This is also the single intercept you have provided. It would
seem safe to assume that the other intercepts are equally worthless,
or you would presumably have provided a better one. If I am
mistaken, and you do have an intercept that shows something
specific, please post.

--
David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask.
david@xxxxxxxxxxxx | If you don't, flee.
http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-

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