Re: After Italy's Surrender - What Role Did They Play Against Germany?

"Michele" wrote:
"Joe Osman" wrote
There were several
divisions (San Marco, Italia, Littorio and Monterosa) in the 500, 000+
man Fascist RSI army.

This figure seems inflated for the army.

Looking at "Le forze armate dela RSI" it looks like this figure comes
from the original RSI Italian plan to rebuild an army. The plan called
for a 500,000 force of which 300,000 in combat units, 100,000 in
services and another 100,000 as replacements etc. The force would
include 25 divisions of which 5 would be armored and 10 motorized. You
can pick up your coffee again when you've stopped laughing, the
quotation is over so your keyboard is safe.

The authors of the same book continue: although the project was
clearly unrealistic, it still constituted a starting base (hope you
didn't pick up that coffee cup, that was a trap) and as such Graziani
submitted it to Mussolini who approved it.

To the end of 1944, 250,000 recruits were enrolled into the Italian
armed forces of which 200,000 went to the ENR (new Fascist Italian
Army) and 50,000 were transferred to the Luftwaffe (in AA units).
Apparently the problem wasn't manpower but the lack of equipment, also
a fairly high desertion rate.
I'm not entirely clear about the part on the recruiting because the
dictionary is out of reach to check the meaning of "entro" so I don't
know if 350,000 or 550,000 Italians reported for service - volunteers,
regulars and conscripts. This is one of those cases when Italian uses
terms that I'm familiar with in other languages though I strongly
suspect that it uses them for a different meaning.

Here's the relevant part in the original Italian.
"Entro l'inizio dell'aprile 1944 complessivamente erano stati
arruolati 200.000 uomini circa, cifra comprendente i volontari, le
reclute delle classi1922-1925 (appartenenti alla leva di terra e
dell'aria; questi ultimi furono ceduti alla Luftwaffe per l'impiego
della Flak) e un nucleo di renitenti edi disertori presentatisi a
seguito dell'emanazione del cosiddetto bando Graziani del 18 febbraio
1944, bando che venne emanato proprio per fare fronte ai fenomeni
della renitenza e della diserzione. Entro la fine dell 1944 oltre
350.000 uomini si erano presentati per l'arruolamento..."

Regarding the use of that manpower, by June 1944 there were 53,000 men
in 120 autonomous units (mostly coastal defense & construction)
operating within the Wehrmacht, plus 7,800 in anti-partisan units
(6,200 in 8 regional companies and 35 provincial companies + 1,600 in
15 Wachkompanie), plus a small cadre (less than 2,000) managing some
45,000 civilians on construction work. Another 150,000 civilians were
working for Organization Todt. By the end of August, the 53,000 in
regular units were down to 18,000. Plus the personnel of the 4
divisions (57,000 in the 4 training centers in mid-44). The book in
the conclusion of the chapter devoted to the ENR restates the 200.000
figure for the total.

Maybe 500,000 is a figure that includes the GNR (National Republican Guard,
the heir of the fascist militia MVSN), with some 89,000 men, and the
all-volunteer Black Guards, some other 30,000 men, and the X MAS you
mentioned, and all the other odds and ends of non-army, volunteer units.

The Xa MAS was part of the ENR, the GNR was not.

Still from the same source, by the end of February 1944 the GNR was
130-140,000 strong of which 68,000 were former MVSN and 45,000 were
former Carabinieri.


LC

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Worst Generals of WW II
    ... Graziani, although in his capacity as Army Chief of Staff he might perhaps ... The Italians had their priorities right in holding Libya with second- ... serious offensive against Cyrenaica (between the Italian declaration ...
    (soc.history.war.world-war-ii)
  • Re: After Italys Surrender - What Role Did They Play Against Germany?
    ... This figure seems inflated for the army. ... Looking at "Le forze armate dela RSI" it looks like this figure comes ... To the end of 1944, 250,000 recruits were enrolled into the Italian ... The Xa MAS was part of the ENR, ...
    (soc.history.war.world-war-ii)
  • Re: Russian Military power in WWII
    ... >>Didn't most Italian Army formations see the pointlessness of fighting the ... > interest in fighting for Mussolini. ... US 92nd infantry division ...
    (soc.history.war.world-war-ii)
  • Re: After Italys Surrender - What Role Did They Play Against Germany?
    ... the Italian military record being ... that reported for enlistment was either 350,000 or 550,000. ... Not that the RSI had the equipment to enlist everybody in anycase so ... not of the ENR (which was the RSI army). ...
    (soc.history.war.world-war-ii)