Re: Islamic science and the long siesta

Dan Drake wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:03:53 UTC, "Michael Kuettner" <miksbg@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:


"John Briggs" schrieb :
Michael Kuettner wrote:
"John Briggs" schrieb :
...
Yes, but that's beside the point.
Don't make the pope look like an ass, that's the point ;-)

So how does that explain the Inquisition's action in 1616? Was it
that they knew he would make fun of the Pope 16 years later?

What ? What's the banning of Foscarini's book got to do with Galilei
?

Maybe it's that they happened at the same time in the same debate in
the same proceedings?

Well, at least we have someone who has heard of Foscarini. But not of
much else.


That action wasn't against Galileo - he just got some hints to be a
little discreet.

Hints? A little discreet?
"...he has only been notified of the declaration made by the Holy
Father and published by the Sacred Congregation of the Index, whose
content is that the doctrine attributed to Copernicus ... is contrary
to Holy Scripture and therefore cannot be defended or held."

Right, the Pope and the Inquisition and Cardinal (Saint) Robert
Bellarmine thought to drop a little subtle *hint* that this stuff is
contrary to Scripture and *cannot* be held or defended. But it's all
their fancy, that (as the Gryphon said), they never really executes
nobody, you know.

By the way, what's the "only" doing there? Well, Bellarmine wrote the
friendly personal note quoted above at Galileo's request to refute
rumors that what had been ordered was *worse* than merely being
ordered not to advocate this anti-Scripture thing. In fact, there's
another Inquisition document from the time which claims it _was_
worse than that: he could not *teach it in any way* or *discuss* it
-- which means, not even as mere hypothesis -- "and further, if he
should not acquiesce, he is to be imprisoned." Now there's a real
discreet hint, compared to the one from the subtle Jesuit.

That second document is less authoritative than the letter signed by a
Saint and Doctor of the Church, and there is still controversy about
the events. But it is recorded in the Inquisition minutes that the
Dominicans wanted Copernicanism suppressed, just as the second
document says. But the controversy exceeds, I hope, the scope of this
thread.

I believe the explanation is in the sentence of the Inquisition, where they
contradict themselves:

"Whereas however we wanted to treat you with benignity at that time, it
was decided at the Holy Congregation held in the presence of His Holiness on
25 Feb 1616 that the Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine would order you
to abandon this false opinion completely; that if you refused to do this,
the Commissary of the Holy Office would give you an injunction to abandon
this doctrine, not to teach it to others, not to defend it, and not to treat
of it; and that if you did not acquiesce in this injunction, you should be
imprisoned. To execute this decision, the following day at the palace of
and in the presence of the above-mentioned Most Eminent Lord Cardinal
Bellarmine, after beine informed and warned in a friendly way by the same
Lord Cardinal, you were given an injunction by the then Father Commissary of
the Holy Office in the presence of a notary and witnesses to the effect that
you must completely abandon the said false opinion, and that in the future
you could neither hold, nor defend, nor teach it in any way whatever, either
orally or in writing; having promised to obey, you were dismissed."

The injunction was only to be given to Galileo "if [he] refused to do this".
But they go on to say that an injunction was actually served on Galileo,
which it wasn't. Bellarmine had outmanoeuvred the Inquisition, but by 1632/3
both he and that Pope were dead.
--
John Briggs


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Islamic science and the long siesta
    ... I believe the explanation is in the sentence of the Inquisition, ... 25 Feb 1616 that the Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine would order you ... to abandon this false opinion completely; that if you refused to do this, ... and that if you did not acquiesce in this injunction, ...
    (soc.history.medieval)
  • Re: Dibdin, Venice, Jewish Ghetto and Nazis was Re: OT - Saudi Arabia
    ... I seem to recall that the Pope did a few ... inquisition until late in the 19th Century... ... ghettos in the various cities they inhabited. ... This history informs part of the poignant, sometimes gut-wrenching, plot ...
    (rec.arts.mystery)
  • Dibdin, Venice, Jewish Ghetto and Nazis was Re: OT - Saudi Arabia
    ... opposition, of the Pope." ... There was an interesting program some months ago on PBS about the inquisition called "The Secret Files of the Inquisition", based on the recent opening of these files in 2000. ... It was because of the Inquisition that Jews were forced to live in ghettos in the various cities they inhabited. ... The ghetto of Rome was proclaimed in 1555 by Pope Paul IV, and was not demolished until action was taken by the newly independent government of Italy in 1870, with the walls torn down in 1888. ...
    (rec.arts.mystery)
  • Re: Fundamentalism, xtians and muslims
    ... Office of Inquisition) was necessary to whip them ... write asking the Pope for a decree to murder Hindus. ... Pope approved of the Spanish Inquisition too. ... with the commission to bring change to the Church. ...
    (soc.culture.indian)
  • Re: Fundamentalism, xtians and muslims
    ... Office of Inquisition) was necessary to whip them ... Pope approved of the Spanish Inquisition too. ... in the Goa Inquisition for refusing to convert to Christianity. ... Testament and found each one had great motive to have lied. ...
    (soc.culture.indian)