Re: Plague of Justinian 541CE

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:37:18 +1100, bernardZ <BernardZ@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article <00isp3dcifokcm951d5dl4ubukc40e007b@xxxxxxx>,
eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx says...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:03:50 +1100, bernardZ <BernardZ@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Do you agree or disagree?

1) A maximum figure of 25 million dead for the Plague of Justinian is
considered a fairly reasonable estimate. A total European population
loss of 50 to 60 percent between 541 and 700 is credible.

2) Justinian's plague weakened the Byzantine Empire at the critical
point when it could have credibly rebuilt the Western Roman Empire!

3) The Eastern Roman Empire and Persia were so weakened that it allowed
the rise of the Arabs who were coming out of a region not badly effected
by the plague. Similarly the rise of the Franks.

For some details please read here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian


The Plague of Justinian appears to be associated with two world-wide
climate down-turn events. It is unlikely that any part of the world
was completely unaffected.

Constantinople probably suffered more than most because it had so many
people crammed together in the one place with all the hygiene problems
that this implies.


Generally the more developed the civilization the more affected. This
might help to explain the rise of the Franks and the Arabs.


The Roman Empire was already very shaky (rotten?) and it did not need
much of a push to make it fall over. It may have been that several
years of bad crops (famine?), disease, and the functional collapse of
the capital city were enough to allow surrounding survivors to give
the Roman Empire the coup de grace.


Indeed Empire building costs money and people.

For more information about the plague aspects I recommend reading "New
Light on the Black Death" by Mike Bail lie. British Amazon has it at
http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Light-Black-Death-Connection/dp/0752435981/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201555968&sr=1-1
or http://tinyurl.com/28yadh

The book is mainly about the 14th century plague but does contain some
interesting information about the Plague of Justin as well. Baillie
thinks there is good evidence that the plagues were associated with
comets.


I doubt that they were caused by comets (that is just my view for all it
is worth).

Read the book and you may change your mind.

I won't say that Baillie is able to prove his case beyond all possible
doubt - there just isn't enough solid evidence. But he does have a
prima facie case. There are global climate down turns derived from
tree rings, marked atmospheric haze reported in both Europe and China,
absence in ice cores of the acid traces typical of volcanoes, peculiar
things happening to the C12/C14 calibration curve at the dates of the
apparent down turn and reports of comets e.g. Roger of Wendover
writing:

"In the year of grace 541, there appeared a comet in Gaul, so vast
that the whole sky seemed on fire. In the same year there dropped
real blood from the clouds ... and a dreadful mortality ensued."

As far as the "real blood" is concerned, see
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=986C6843355296784B57E7EBAA2D2FB5.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=1661980
or http://tinyurl.com/26omnu

Also http://tinyurl.com/ywevvu

It does seem as though Baillie has established a case to answer.



Eric Stevens
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Plague of Justinian 541CE
    ... A maximum figure of 25 million dead for the Plague of Justinian is ... The Eastern Roman Empire and Persia were so weakened that it allowed ... Similarly the rise of the Franks. ...
    (soc.history.medieval)
  • Re: Plague of Justinian 541CE
    ... A maximum figure of 25 million dead for the Plague of Justinian is ... The Eastern Roman Empire and Persia were so weakened that it allowed ... Similarly the rise of the Franks. ...
    (soc.history.medieval)
  • Plague of Justinian 541CE
    ... A maximum figure of 25 million dead for the Plague of Justinian is ... A total European population ... The Eastern Roman Empire and Persia were so weakened that it allowed ... Similarly the rise of the Franks. ...
    (soc.history.medieval)
  • Re: Plague of Justinian 541CE
    ... Justinian is considered a fairly reasonable estimate. ... critical point when it could have credibly rebuilt the Western ... survivors to give the Roman Empire the coup de grace. ... apparent down turn and reports of comets e.g. Roger of Wendover ...
    (soc.history.medieval)
  • Re: Plague of Justinian 541CE
    ... Justinian is considered a fairly reasonable estimate. ... critical point when it could have credibly rebuilt the Western ... survivors to give the Roman Empire the coup de grace. ... apparent down turn and reports of comets e.g. Roger of Wendover ...
    (soc.history.medieval)