Re: The Knights Templar


"Vaughan Sanders" <vjs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
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"Inger E.Johansson" <inger e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Vaughan Sanders" <vjs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
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"Inger E.Johansson" <inger e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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snip


No doubt they will claim that the "Táin Bó Cúailnge" is the earliest
vernacular litterateur in the British Isles.
The earliest Ms date from Geoffrey of Monmouth's era, btw
Same where the Taffy's are concerned
<snicker>

Jamie

Jamie,
question. While the earliest Ms in 'full' date from Geoffrey of
Monmouth's
era, I am pretty sure that I have seen somewhere that a fragment of a
much
older document was found in late 19th or early 20th century.
Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure that I have a note of
it
somewhere.

Inger E



There's fragments of old Irish which some claim show the Tain to be
early,
mostly in the margins of early Latin works..

This only becomes a problem when people start using these Ms to prove
some
theory or another on the origin of the English language.
The "change of culture" theory did just this when confronted with "why
did
English not take any loan words from the P's and Q's?".

Jamie

That last one I missed completely. Question that is. But since it must
have
been put forward, I would like to know not why the English didn't take
any
loan words from the P's and Q's but why do anyone belíeve that notes in
margins could be used to prove any change of culture at all? That I
would
like to know.

Inger E



In the later Ms you can find English loan words, if you claim the Ms are
copies of an earlier language (pre A-S), hey presto the language problem
is
solved in the "change of culture" scenario (a bit of a blow to this theory
was the latest DNA studies).

How the English took over is one of the big unsolved mysteries of history.
Anglo-Saxon.and Romano-Brit archaeology stand side by side, suggesting
they
ignored each other, pretty much what Bede says btw. This of course does
not
fit with modern multiculturalism, plus modern Celtic nationalism has also
muddied the waters.

Jamie

Well mystery or not I know for a fact that I can put King Alfred's Orosius
in the hand of people who can't read English but who are well acquainted
with local western Gothaland's dialect as well as old Tanum's dialect. I
done it and they read it without problem telling me what was in the text. Do
I believe that the early language spoken in one or two of the English
Kingdoms origin in Sweden? NO. But since I also had the pleasure back in the
70's to have one of England's more popular bands as guests for a day one
winter up in Sannäs and they took to the ice in order to speak to some of
the Elderly fishermen, men who never learnt English in school, and one of
the guys when they came back after an hour said that there hadn't been any
problem talking with the men as long as the men spoke their dialect(which
was old Tanum's dialect) and the guys themselves spoke their local
'home'-dialect, I always believed it possible that people around the North
Sea might have had same language of different dialects at least from
Migration Age. Can't it be so simple that the A-S who came and the Celts,
and others, who lived in England spoke dialects of same language and had had
contacts for many generations all round the North Sea and thus the
difference that came apart not were so drastic and dramatic when it came to
cultural changes but that the dialect that came to be used and later known
as English were a mix of dialects. You know as we today call 'Stockholm's
dialect' for 'Rikssvenska' and that definitely is a mix of more than one
dialect that later came to be more 'official' Swedish'?

If the groups had had contact for generations over many centuries I would
have been surprised if there was a dramatic change in DNA. Wouldn't you?

Inger E




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