Brass & Steel
- From: "Martin" <martin.reboul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:09:52 -0000
Ignore extra >...!
> "John Cooper" <black@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:dmigjr$1m3$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > "Martin" <martin.reboul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:438bb72d_4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > > Can you explain to me why, in the Book of Job, there are several mentions
> > > of
> > > iron, at least two of brass, and one at least of 'steel'?
> > >
> > > As far as is known, this was supposedly written in the 'wilderness' days,
> > > long
> > > before 1000BC....
> > >
> > > Can you explain please why the Egyptians were still using bronze and
> > > copper, yet
> > > Job & co knew of these metals? Brass wasn't really made until the
> > > 16th/17th C,
> > > and steel is of medieval origin - so it is written by those who know fact
> > > from
> > > fiction, archaeologists and historians.
> > ______________________________________________________
> >
> > Both brass/bronze and iron were being worked by the eighth generation:
> >
> > 'And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in
> > brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.' (Genesis 4:22)
> >
> > Much of the knowledge of working metals may have been lost at the time of
> > the Flood, only to be rediscovered later.
> >
> > The change from bronze to iron was not abrupt, as we see from the early
> > books of the Bible, where the Israelites, who had bronze weapons, were
> > initially afraid of the Canaanites, who had chariots of iron. The Egyptians
> > apparently continued using bronze long after other nations had switched to
> > using iron, according to the article on steel on wikipedia:
> >
> > 'Egypt, on the other hand, did not experience such a rapid transition from
> > the bronze to iron ages: although Egyptian smiths did produce iron
> > artifacts, bronze remained in widespread use there until after Egypt's
> > conquest by Assyria in 663 BC.'
> >
> > and so people would have been familiar with both metals.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass
> >
> > Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, a solid-solid solution. Typically it
> > is more than 50 % copper. Some types of brass are called *bronzes*, despite
> > their high zinc content.
> >
> > *Brass has been known to man since prehistoric times*, long before zinc
> > itself was discovered. It was produced by melting copper together with
> > calamine, a zinc ore. During this process, the zinc is extracted from the
> > calamine and instantly mixes with the copper. Pure zinc, on the other hand,
> > is too reactive to be produced by ancient metalworking techniques.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
> >
> > Beginning between 3000 BC to 2000 BC increasing numbers of smelted iron
> > objects (distinguishable from meteoric iron by their lack of nickel) appear
> > in Anatolia, Egypt and Mesopotamia (see Iron: History). The oldest known
> > samples of iron that appear to have been smelted from iron oxides are small
> > lumps found at copper-smelting sites on the Sinai Peninsula, dated to about
> > 3000 BC. Some iron oxides are effective fluxes for copper smelting; it is
> > possible that small amounts of metallic iron were made as a by-product of
> > copper and bronze production throughout the Bronze Age.
> > In Anatolia, smelted iron was occasionally used for ornamental weapons: an
> > iron-bladed dagger with a bronze hilt has been recovered from a Hattic tomb
> > dating from 2500 BC. Also, the Egyptian ruler Tutankhamun died in 1323 BC
> > and was buried with an iron dagger with a golden hilt. An Ancient Egyptian
> > sword bearing the name of pharaoh Merneptah as well as a battle axe with an
> > iron blade and gold-decorated bronze haft were both found in the excavation
> > of Ugarit (see Ugarit). The early Hittites are known to have bartered iron
> > for silver, at a rate of 40 times the iron's weigh, with Assyria.
> >
> > Iron did not, however, replace bronze as the chief metal used for weapons
> > and tools for several centuries, despite some attempts. Working iron
> > required more fuel and significantly more labor than working bronze, and the
> > quality of iron produced by early smiths may have been inferior to bronze as
> > a material for tools. Then, between 1200 and 1000 BC, iron tools and weapons
> > displaced bronze ones throughout the near east. This process appears to have
> > begun in the Hittite Empire around 1300 BC, or in Cyprus and southern
> > Greece, where iron artifacts dominate the archaeological record after 1050
> > BC. Mesopotamia was fully into the Iron Age by 900 BC, central Europe by 800
> > BC. The reason for this sudden adoption of iron remains a topic of debate
> > among archaeologists. One prominent theory is that warfare and mass
> > migrations beginning around 1200 BC disrupted the regional tin trade,
> > forcing a switch from bronze to iron. *Egypt, on the other hand, did not
> > experience such a rapid transition from the bronze to iron ages: although
> > Egyptian smiths did produce iron artifacts, bronze remained in widespread
> > use there until after Egypt's conquest by Assyria in 663 BC.*
> >
> > Iron smelting at this time was based on the bloomery, a furnace where
> > bellows were used to force air through a pile of iron ore and burning
> > charcoal. The carbon monoxide produced by the charcoal reduced the iron
> > oxides to metallic iron, but the bloomery was not hot enough to melt the
> > iron. Instead, the iron collected in the bottom of the furnace as a spongy
> > mass, or bloom, whose pores were filled with ash and slag. The bloom then
> > had to be reheated to soften the iron and melt the slag, and then repeatedly
> > beaten and folded to force the molten slag out of it. The result of this
> > time-consuming and laborious process was wrought iron, a malleable but
> > fairly soft alloy containing little carbon.
> >
> > Wrought iron can be carburized into a mild steel by holding it in a charcoal
> > fire for prolonged periods of time. By the beginning of the Iron Age, smiths
> > had discovered that iron that was repeatedly reforged produced a higher
> > quality of metal. Quench-hardening was also known by this time. The oldest
> > quench-hardened steel artifact is a knife found on Cyprus at a site dated to
> > 1100 BC.
> >
> >
> >
> > The word 'steel' only comes 4 times in the OT, and the same word is
> > translated 'brass' elsewhere in the OT.
>
> Thanks John - as an amateur historian and blacksmith, I was aware of much of
> that already, which is why I asked. The book of Job was however written...
when?
> The 'newest' estimate is well before 1000BC. Some say even older..
>
> http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/pre-reformation.html
>
> As far as 1700 BC...
>
> http://www.wordsight.org/btl/000_btl-fp.htm
>
>
>
> Whatever, these are well before the discovery of brass (C15... AD), and well,
> well before any differentiation between iron and steel.
>
> If any iron, steel or brass atefacts have been discovered from before 1000BC
in
> Job's 'manor', I'd be most interested to hear of them.
>
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>
.
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