Re: Semiticisms anyone? More fun than tennis.

On 4 Aug, 08:04, Matt Giwer <jul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
mof wrote:
On 2 Aug, 20:19, Matt Giwer <jul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Weland wrote:
...
When we compare the Old Greek texts to the Hebrew texts, we note that
the HEbrew texts show different stages of the development of language,
different grammatical and vocabulary styles, etc, i. e. the evidence of
multiple authors writing at different times.  When we look at the Old
Greek we note that the LXX (for which as a whole we have rather late
evidence) appears far more uniform, suggesting that the Greek was made
by a smaller group of people at roughly the same time in history.  This
is one that that points to the latter being a translation of the former..
        We find the same thing in German translations of Shakespeare proving
conclusively the English is the translation. We find it because the
translation of each play was done at different times by different people for
different purposes.
        From this we see opposite conclusions can be drawn from the same evidence.
The conclusion chosen is based upon the beliefs one brings to the discussion.
--
God gave Israel the Ten Commandments because they
were in such desperate need of them.
        -- The Iron Webmaster, 4177
 http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/is-seg.phtmla14
Sun Aug  2 14:13:04 EDT 2009
^_^
There are two sides to every coin, and your arguments help in
destroying each other.
The reason as to why we see a development of the German, is that
German is a living language that has changed since the days of
Shakespeare.

        I did not suggest there was any need to consider German evolving. Just having
different people even all speaking identical German making separate
translations for different purposes will lead to inconsistent German
translations.

        The difference between translating to be read and to be spoken can result in
different translations.

        Shakespeare is filled with idiomatic expressions. Many of them make no sense
in English today unless they have been preserved by quoting his plays. Idioms
do not translated, period. However robust languages with common origins
usually have an equivalent which may or may not be an idiom. Some terms have
no parallel. Schadenfreude has no single word equivalent in English. Stem the
tide means nothing in German as a direct translation but, if I remember
correctly, there is a reference to some king who ordered the tide to not rise
which has the same meaning.

        Different translators will choose different words for their translation. One
might substitute the German idiom about the king. Another might think that
loses the "alien" English flavor and make up a German phrase meaning the same.
Another might leave it as is expecting his audience to be familiar with the
English idiom.

So if you hold the above scenario to be true, it follows that Hebrew
was spoken. Yet in other articles you argue that such was not the
case, and we all know why. You want it to be impossible for the OT to
have been originally written in Hebrew.
A friendly advice, it would do you good with a little less hate, and
some more love for Jews. It brings happiness, goodness, and arguments
that are worth some. Peace to you Mr. Giwer <3

        Believers -- traditionalists if they wish as long as they admit only
religious traditions -- work hard to miss the point.

        The point here being the issue is NO MORE THAN argumentation and cannot rise
beyond that. The observation of consistent or inconsistent text can be argued
to either conclusion and thus, by itself, cannot be used as a decision criteria.

--
Zionism is a political cult dedicated to murdering Palestinians
and stealing their property.
        -- The Iron Webmaster, 4165
 http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/Antisemitism a10
Tue Aug  4 01:43:56 EDT 2009

I note that you implicitly accept my conclusion about your argument.
You write about spoken German, hence spoken Hebrew.

For your information, Shakespeare has been translated to German since
the 17th century. It would be surprising if the language in the oldest
translations is like modern German. This is because it has evolved. In
general, no one today writes like people did close to 400 years ago.
The differences can not be difficult to spot, and for a German
speaking person it should be easy to immediately see that a certain
text is written in an old version of the language. That is not to say
that different translators today wouldn't produce texts in different
styles, but quite probably, none of them would write 17th century
German.

Using heuristics, the evidence seem to say that Hebrew was at least
spoken from around the time of the mythical foundations of the Jewish
kingdoms. This is also what scholars say. None of them hold that it
was a creation in the age of Hellenism.
.

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