Re: Origin of Sabbath, Canaanite seasonal festivals, and nomads’ spring sacrifice

Dragonblaze wrote:
On May 21, 8:10 am, Matt Giwer <jul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[snip]
There WERE in fact Judeans in the 2nd c. BC but not in the 5th (Herodotus) or
the 3rd (Alexander) or by anyone at any time prior to the 2nd c. BC. The
supposed Late Bronze has nothing to do with it. ALL the time before they do
appear has everything to do with it.
Present evidence for your assertion - IF you can.
Demanding proof of a negative is the last retreat of a scoundrel or an idiot.
Take your choice.

No squirming now, Matt. Present evidence for your claim. How do you
explain the numerous archaeological sites that have been reliably
dated to an era long before 2nd century BCE?

You know full well I am talking about the number of walled cities and fortresses which match the number in the inscription. But you want to count everything rather than show a match to the inscription.

And quit using double standards, Matt. You dismiss all of the Bible
because it has some legendary/mythical matter, but accept Herodotus
even though some of his writing is clearly legendary/mythical. Not
very good....
I dismiss it primarily because there is no physical evidence of an indigenous
culture which could have produced it prior to the Greek conquest of the
region. The fact that it is critically dependent upon stories suitable only
for children simply addresses the immaturity of those how want to take it
seriously.
I have presented evidence to the contrary. Now try presenting some
evidence to back your claim.
You have claimed there was a society which could have created the OT as
chronicles which presenting any physical evidence of that society existing.. So
much for your claim.

Take the time to actually LEARN some archaeology of the area. I have
recommended a very good source for you - but you seem to be afraid to
read it.

You are free to invite the author here to present and defend her claims. Until then it is just another appeal to authority. As I remember this is the fruitcake Mazar you recommend. She "discovered" David's Palace nearly three years ago and still no professional paper. Why is that?

You are saying the equivalent of there was an Atlantis because Plato said so
and nothing more than that.

That's more like your method.

I am saying a story is not sufficient evidence. I am saying there must be physical evidence first and that it must show it all without any reference to the story. And that the story must match what has been found.

You have accepted the bible stories as fact. You say inscriptions match the bible stories. That stories match stories is meaningless if they do not match the physical evidence.

You have nothing which can be distinguished from a mere borrowed name for the
creators of the Septuagint.- Hide quoted text -
Ka-na-na and ga-na-na is clearly the name for an ethnos in early
historical Levant - as evidenced by those texts, which speak of a
people.
I am still waiting for your reconciliation of the OT with the fact there is
no evidence of any indigenous civilization which could have produced it..
And I'm still waiting you to read that Mazar book I recommended to you
- I don't have the time or energy to post the whole book here.
You have a long wait then. I am only interested in physical evidence from
Archaeology before it is worth the time on anything else.
That book is about archaeology by a professional archaeologist. What's
the matter? Afraid that reading it would collapse your little fantasy?
Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.

ROFL. So if you wanted to learn Chinese and I recommended a book by a
recognized author in the field

Karl Marx is a recognized author on economics and social classes. The fact that he only wrote bull*** on the subjects does not change his being a recognized author.

to you that would be appeal to
authority? Do you realize how silly you sound?

You are free to invite the authority to participate here. Something reprinted by Anchor Bible Press is not a credible as that publisher is not expected to validate the science.

I am also still waiting for your definition of ethnos before you use it in a
sentence.
Already done - now go look it up.
Bull***.
I have posted my definition of ethnos to you in a previous post. If
you don't believe me, go look it up there.
Where is the THERE to look it up? Give me its unique identifier from the
header.

Here it is again: "Ethnos, nation, ethnic identity. What's so
difficult about that term?"

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.history.ancient/msg/be9d2224ec7e5402?dmode=source

You mean this?

"Ethnos, nation, ethnic identity. What's so difficult about that term?"

The only group identity in bibleland is Palestinian from Herodotus to modern times. The Palestinians survived as a group even with the imposition of Judaism on those in a modest part of Palestine, and voluntary conversion to Christianity and Islam and still today remain cohesive and are handily surviving the zionists from eastern Europe who are convert Jews and who are the minority of Jews in the world today.

There is no sign of any common ethnic character to Judeans/Jews today and imagining there once was is nothing more than imagination. I have heard that claim made many times but I have always asked those who claim it to name the common ethnic characteristics of Iranian, Moroccan, Russia and New York Jews. Do New York Jews ululate instead of applaud like Sephardic Jews? Do you think Sephardic Jews eat German potato pancakes and sing Hava Negilah to the tune by Irving Berlin?

You are talking about something for which there is only your imagination to claim once existed. We know from Roman times the Samaritans were not Jews and still today hold to their religion -- and their religion was likely the outline for the religion created by the Septuagint. The Jerusalem priest Josephus wrote that his religion had only 22 holy books to it was clearly not the religion of today. There was also a temple to Ashara in Jerusalem in Roman times.

And is it really so hard to admit you can't claim there are Jews
because there were Judeans?

What on EARTH do you mean by that???

Judea was a short time creation in Palestine. There is no single religion of Judaism today and clearly there never was. It is a greater stretch to put all "jews" in one category than to put the LDS and Roman Catholicism in the same category.

The priests of the Yahweh cult imposed it by the
liberal use of public executions.

Cite source for that claim.

Never heard of stoning? Only an imposed religion needs a death penalty to punish simple religious matters which are far from heresy. if it were a native religion it would have been the common consensus religion not needing public executions.

--
You can always trust a Zionist to be a Zionist.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3996
http://www.haaretz.com What is Israel really like? http://www.jpost.com a7
.

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