Re: The origins of the Christian catacombs in Rome

Larry Swain wrote: on, 29/04/2008 20:11:
Peter Alaca wrote:
"Larry Swain" <giles@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:hISdndUZ763LrorVnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@xxxxxxxxxx

Dom wrote:

On Apr 27, 4:51 am, Peter Alaca <p.al...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Christians and death: A study of the origins
of the christian catacombs of Rome

Abstract
This Ph.D. dissertation addresses the question of
whether the famous catacombs of Rome are a
Christian invention.


I recall reading that the catacombs existed before the Christians and
that they had been created by the removal of tufa (sp?). Also, which
came first: the Jewish or the Christian burials in the catacombs?

They did. I believe that the Jewish and Christian burials in the catacombs are roughly simultaneous, though I may be misremembering.



Borg, K. van der, A.F.M de Jong, L.V. Rutgers & I. Poole (2005)
Jewish inspiration of Christian catacombs
Nature 436(2):339
<http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/let/2006-0726-200703/Rutgers_et.al_05_christian-catacombs.pdf>

or http://tinyurl.com/6crvem [1p, 174kb]

"This evidence indicates that the Villa Torlonia catacomb
came into use in the second century AD, a century before
the building of the earliest Christian catacombs started.
Given that Roman Christianity evolved from Judaism, and
Jews and Christians continued to interact until well into
Late Antiquity, it is pos-sible that Christian funerary
practices were influenced by Jewish ones. This could
explain the similarity between the oldest of the early
Christian underground cemeteries and the Jewish Villa
Torlonia catacomb, particularly considering that Callixtus,
the deacon in charge of developing the Christian
catacombs, came from the Jewish quarter. However, con-
firmation awaits radiocarbon dating of the Christian
catacombs."
===========================


Hello Peter,

Well, interestingly, this is a huge reversal on Rutgers' part, something that the article doesn't mention. The article in Nature plays a little loose with the dating, since the earliest Christian catacombs date to the late second century, which even Rutgers in works published in 1995 and 1998 states explicitly and lays out the evidence. I don't know of any article or book by Rutgers where he disproves that the earliest CHristian catacombs are not late second century. Tis a puzzle. I'll wait for a full report rather than a snippet.
Rutgers, L.V., Borg, K. van der & Jong, A.F.M. de (2005)
Radiocarbon dates from the catacombs of St. Callixtus in Rome
RADIOCARBON, 47(3)3:395–400
<http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/let/2006-0726-200711/Rutgers_p395_05_catacombs-radiodata.pdf>

or http://tinyurl.com/6lat2c [6pp, 344 kb]

"ABSTRACT. This paper reports the first chronological
assessment of the Christian catacombs of Rome by
radiocarbon dating. The organic materials dated were found
in a set of burial rooms in the so-called Liberian region of
the catacombs of St. Callixtus on the Appian Way. 14C
dating of small samples by accelerator mass spectrometry
(AMS) represents a major advance over traditional
archaeological dating methods used in catacomb
archaeology; however, AMS 14C dating raises ques-tions
about sample reliability and chronological evaluation. We
briefly explore these questions."

This article has nothing to do with the question. They studied the Liberian section of the St. Callixtus catacomb: a known fourth century section of a larger complex dating only to the third century. The above study demonstrated that the traditional dating methods were accurate, and even pushed the dating back to POSSIBLY being interpreted as late third century. It does not address the question of the earliest Christian catacombs in comparison/contrast to the earliest Jewish catacombs.


That is because there are no comparable
accurate (14C) datings available.


By the way, I don't think its an "either/or" on what came first. If jews and Christians were in as close contact and close proximity as seems the case, it wouldn't take a century for Christians to start using catacombs.

I don't know. In northern Europe Roman Catholics, Jews
and Protestants are in close contact for ages, and
they still are very different in their expressions :-).

> If the Jewish catacombs predate the Christian, it was a
matter of a very short time, not a century--otherwise we can not say that the communities were in such close contact and proximity.


To me the question of who came first is of very little relevance.

--
p.a.



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The origins of the Christian catacombs in Rome
    ... of the christian catacombs of Rome ... Christian invention. ... I believe that the Jewish and Christian burials in the catacombs are roughly simultaneous, ... The article in Nature plays a little loose with the dating, since the earliest Christian catacombs date to the late second century, which even Rutgers in works published in 1995 and 1998 states explicitly and lays out the evidence. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: The origins of the Christian catacombs in Rome
    ... of the christian catacombs of Rome ... Christian invention. ... I believe that the Jewish and Christian burials in the catacombs are roughly simultaneous, ... The article in Nature plays a little loose with the dating, since the earliest Christian catacombs date to the late second century, which even Rutgers in works published in 1995 and 1998 states explicitly and lays out the evidence. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: The origins of the Christian catacombs in Rome
    ... of the christian catacombs of Rome ... the Jewish or the Christian burials in the catacombs? ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: The origins of the Christian catacombs in Rome
    ... of the christian catacombs of Rome ... Christian invention. ... I believe that the Jewish and Christian burials in the catacombs are roughly simultaneous, ...
    (soc.history.ancient)