Re: Spartans did not throw deformed babies away: researchers

In article <ReadnU31atKMQO3anZ2dnUVZ8tqinZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
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In article
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"bernardz" <berna...@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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I was reading the current biblical archeology news emails
and
they
had
this interesting story.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hHzsLiMdT06yLSvTLMEozBFUC1sQ

The Greek myth that ancient Spartans threw their stunted
and
sickly
newborns off a cliff was not corroborated by
archaeological
digs
in
the area, researchers said Monday.

After more than five years of analysis of human remains
culled
from
the pit, also called an apothetes, researchers found
only
the
remains
of adolescents and adults between the ages of 18 and 35,
Athens
Faculty of Medicine Anthropologist Theodoros Pitsios
said.

"There were still bones in the area, but none from
newborns,
according
to the samples we took from the bottom of the pit" of
the
foothills
of
Mount Taygete near present-day Sparta.

"It is probably a myth, the ancient sources of this
so-called
practice
were rare, late and imprecise," he added.

Meant to attest to the militaristic character of the
ancient
Spartan
people, moralistic historian Plutarch in particular
spread
the
legend
during first century AD.

(a)
According to Pitsios, the bones studied to date came
from
the
fifth
and sixth centuries BC and come from 46 men, confirming
the
assertion
from ancient sources that the Spartans threw prisoners,
traitors
or
criminals into the pit.

The discoveries shine light on an episode during the
second
war
between Sparta and Messene, a fortified city state
independent
of
Sparta, when Spartans defeated the Messenian hero
Aristomenes
and
his
50 warriors, who were all thrown into the pit, he added.

The Second Messenian War was from 685 to 665 BC so the
bones
have
nothing
to
do with it.

We are not exactly sure of the dates but normally we use
about
630
BCE

Who is we?

The date of the Second Messenian War is perfectly clear and
given
by
Pausanius. There is no about about it. It dates from 685 to
665
BC.

Pausanius?? He is 2nd century CE and even Pausanius admits
that
his
sources are not particularly good.

He says nothing of the kind.

A universally accepted undisputed chronology existed since the
time
of
the
first Olympiad, and the dates of the First and Second Messenian
War's
are
both within this time and therefore accurate, as are the dates
of
the
colonisation of Italy which occurred in between.

You may want to read this

http://books.google.com/books?id=WGNH-oxXiAUC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=p...

Someone's worthless personal opinion, not a historical text. Why
should I
waste my time reading it?

I think the same of your stuff.

So you think historical texts are worthless? You are an idiot.

Not useless just requires assessment Pausanius in the 2nd century CE
is
quite likely to have mistakes on this and archaeologist are also
useful.

WRONG. There is no basis to suspect there are any mistakes in
Pausanius
of
the magnitude of over 100 years which you are suggesting.

Please read the original article, it is not a 100 years.

Second Messenian War 685-665 BC.

Date of Remains according to Article 500-300 BC.


The article never even mentioned 300 BCE. What it stated was "the
bones studied to date came from the fifth and sixth centuries BC"

It's still nowhere near the Second Messenian War. Only an idiot would think
it was in the time of Piseistratus and Solon contrary to the historical
facts.


Well is Theodoros Pitsios an idiot? Looking at his biography you decide!

Associate Professor of the Medical school of the University of Athens
Curator of the Museum of Anthropology
President of the Greek Anthropological Association

He received his graduate degree in Physical Anthropology, with a minor
in Genetics and Paleontology, from the Johannes Gutenberg Universität of
Mainz, in Germany, from which institution he was later awarded his PhD
in Natural Sciences.

Since 1979, he has been working with the Anthropological Museum of the
Medical School of the University of Athens. He has participated in many
on-site research projects, excavations and studies of
paleoanthropological findings within the Greek area, and has published 4
monographs and more than 60 articles in scientific journals.

Read on..

http://anthropology-museum.med.uoa.gr/1ceng.htm






The archaeological date is nowhere near that of the Second Messenian War.



but in any case see (a) above for his dates. They are in
the
acceptable
range.

No they are not. The middle date of 600-400 BC is nowhere
near
685
to
665
BC
or even within three standard deviations unless the error
margins
are
greater than 50 years, in which case the archaeology is in no
position
to
make claims about events.

He is not saying that if you read (a) what he is saying is
that
the
earliest remains date back to the sixth centuries BCE and the
latest
date back to the fifth.

The Second Messenian War was about one century earlier.

Still it is nice to know that the Spartans were not as bad
as
presented.




.

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