Re: Some questions for Christainsen

On Sep 2, 3:50 pm, Ian <ian.gro...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2 Sep, 19:45, David <pchristain...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 2, 1:51 pm, Ian <ian.gro...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'm sorry, David, but I don't agree with you. Academics have no
obligation to respond to every crackpot idea lobbed our way. To get
academic attention, you have (one has) to play by academic rules. You
submit work for peer-reviewed publication. That means you need good
evidence, not just sensational conclusions, and you need to justify
every step of logic and deduction you use.

What makes you think she did not already get thru your hurdles when
she already got published enough in certain peer-reviewed
publications?

If she has published her ideas: how she derives her code - how she
applies it and how she corroborates the results - in peer reviewed
journals then I think we may even more safely assume that the
rejection by the entire academic community is well founded.

I feel you are entirely too hypothetical because you do not show you
have yet followed my leads in this thread. In fact, I feel your
attitude has
not basically changed since our soc.religion.quaker days.

Nonetheless, I'll answer by saying very precisely that AFAIK her
pesher
method in the scholarly literature is PIECEMEAL. AFAIK the only way
to get the big picture on her Thiering pesher is to get her articles,
published
on the Internet, from my former yahoo forum -

Index BT
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/3088

"Pesharim 1981

Pesher of NT books theory 193, 195, 322, 354, 358, 483, 1010,
1011,1057, 1373, 1501,1773, 1777,

1853, 2694, 3057 ; word, pronunciation 3030, 3042;
continuing knowledge of 1273, 1303, 3000, 3072"

Alternatively, please study in close detail -

Finding the pesher - Introduction
http://www.pesherofchrist.infinitesoulutions.com/index3.html

Anyways, I know I am extremely demanding with most of my NG
correspondents
because I expect them to judge the evidence themselves, independent of
what
scholars did or did not say.

No you don't You expect them to agree with you (although you never,
ever say anything concrete enough to be agreed with) and throw a strop
when they don't.

On the contrary I rarely expect them to agree with me about anything
even
remotely connected to Dr. Thiering even if they were to hang with me
for a while.

What, precisely, do you mean by "the basis of Thiering pesher" - and
shouldn't that be "Essene pesher" anyway?
There is a difference between Essene (DSS) pesher and Thiering pesher.
Larry Swain already understands the difference.

So you are saying that Thiering does not use the same code as the
people who wrote the documents she claims to be decoding?

Tilt - Dr. Thiering, BY ANOLOGY, says her so-called Thiering pesher
is similar, but not by any means identical, with DSS pesher.

Please reread Larry Swain in this thread - Sep 2, 2:44 am -
because he understands the difference between Thiering and DSS pesher:

"> She does not basically use the method of historians;

Not high praise and certainly problematic. One of the problems, for
example, is that the pesherim actually TELL US THAT THEY ARE
INTERPRETING: i. e. the word and genre of pesher results from the
fact
that in the DSS commentaries a phrase is given from a Biblical book
and
is followed by a form of 'pesher', signalling the interpretation.
That
is never the case in the examples Thiering applies her 'method' too."

How, precisely, did you "verify" Thiering's work? Did you compare it
with other contemporary evidence? Note that self-consistence is not
enough: the Lord of the Rings is entirely self-consistent as well.
Not to nitpick unnecessarily with you but time-consuming and numerous
tests of consistency are the ONLY WAY to verify Thiering pesher.

Why? It's supposed to be uncovering geograohical and historical facts,
isn't it? Why can't it be verified against other sources.

Her level of detail is massive and almost totally new information as
compared to
the last 2000 years.

I suppose one could follow up on a FEW isolated facts such as -

James, brother of Jesus, was an Essene because he wore linen, white
robes
and would not suffer oil to be put on his skin

The apostle Paul was married to Phoebe for a temporary amount of time
before
Paul reverted back to Essene celibacy. (The Qumran sectarians valued
celibacy
highly; the earliest Christians valued celibacy moderately - also, Dr.
Thiering is
classifying the apostle Paul as a Diaspora Essene early in his career
for at least
3 years after his Damascas experience.)

I am not aware of ANY historical documents to verify Thiering pesher.

So there is no possible way of telling whether she is right or not?

Ian

The time-consuming and numerous tests of consistency that a whole team
of academics would have to do - requiring a substantial amount of
funding -
is the only way.

This means the academic team would have to get to the bottom of this
Thiering pesher
verification with a vengeance and not stop until they get to the
finish line. IOW, I would
want a YES or a NO answer at the end of the process.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Open Letter on Christian Origins and Dr. Barbara Thiering of Australia
    ... no other academics anywhere in ... the world agree with Thiering, ... the "Pesher of Christ" site Section 6 Crucifixion. ... your attempts to present Thiering as knowledgeable in archaeology have ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: Some questions for Christainsen
    ... Please back up and empty your mind; Dr. Thiering is definitely a trip ... is followed by a form of "pesher", ... rare scholar that has even understood it over the decades, ... bright teenager to apply her method, since you have made both claims. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: Thiering FUQ (Frequently Unanswered Questions)
    ... Again I challenge you to demonstrate how Thiering's pesher ... that house her" (Greek word order) is "Mary stayed with her ... Nobody except Thiering disagrees about what it means. ... three Greek words and see what Theiring claims to see, ...
    (soc.religion.quaker)
  • Re: Some questions for Christainsen
    ... is followed by a form of "pesher", ... is never the case in the examples Thiering applies her "method" too. ... OT texts being made to refer to actions of Jesus. ... bright teenager to apply her method, since you have made both claims. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: Some questions for Christainsen
    ... Could you perhaps explain how the "Thiering methodology" differs from ... I happen to find her pesher ... rare scholar that has even understood it over the decades, ... OT texts being made to refer to actions of Jesus. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
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