Re: Some questions for Christainsen

On Aug 31, 1:42 pm, Ian <ian.gro...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 31 Aug, 18:11, David <pchristain...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Aug 31, 12:21 am, Larry Swain <gi...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Oh, not true. Ben Zion Wacholder, Erik W. Larson, Morton Smith, Moshe
Bernstein, Garcia Martinez, among others have all disproven the claims
on which Thiering bases her case. Those are just the ones off the top
of my head. So we need only solid evidence against, no hypothetical
evidence necessary.

What is truth? Let's prepare to get into the nitty-gritty Thiering
methodology.

Could you perhaps explain how the "Thiering methodology" differs from
the methodologies used by other historians, or scientists. One of the
things I find hard to swallow about all of this is that it appears to
require a completely different approach, unconcerned with evidence,
confirmation or replication.

Please back up and empty your mind; Dr. Thiering is definitely a trip
on the wild side.

She does not basically use the method of historians; I mean - although
she
has erudite knowledge of ancient documents, her pesher method
is a unique interpretation of NT text. I happen to find her pesher
rules RIGIDLY
ROBOTIC in the extreme. She claims the NT writer deliberately put
"pesher"
alongside surface text.

AFAIK your experts have never spoken directly to Thiering pesher
and Essene calendar within NT text.

What's that supposed to mean?

They failed to address squarely and scholarly these 2 topics -
Thiering pesher and Essene calendar within NT text. I mean
really get into it on a nitty-gritty level page after page with no
contradictions or inconsistencies appearing...

AFAIK it would be the extremely
rare scholar that has even understood it over the decades, as time
goes by.

And yet you claimed that a bright teenager could apply it. Which is it
- extremely rare scholar or bright teenager?

You are permitted to guess that when I was a teacher earlier in my
career, I was an extremely tough grader. It is clear I am damning
almost all of the world's scholars over 25 years because even a bright
teenager
could have cracked the code - IOW, extract genuine history from NT
text
unknown for 2000 years.

In a gentler vein some of these scholars like Talmon did not have the
latest data at their fingertips to change their original perspective.

Please consult -

Subject: The scientific method
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/2191

"On the use of pesher. From the time the Scrolls were first
discovered, it was recognised by biblical scholars, for example the
conservative F.F. Bruce, that the NT was using pesher in the same way
that the Scrolls were. The gospel of Matthew has numerous examples of
OT texts being made to refer to actions of Jesus. The most striking
example is in Mt 2:15, where Hos 11:1, which in its context refers
back to the Exodus from Egypt, is made to refer forward to the child
Jesus being brought out of Egypt. Similarly in Mt 2:6, 18, 23, all of
which take the OT verses out of context and apply them to present
circumstances. Both sets of literature take Hab 2:4, 'the righteous
shall live by faith' out of its context concerning events in 600 BC
and apply it to their own leader - the Scrolls to the T of R, the NT
to Jesus. The procedure is directed at those people who believe that
they themselves and their associates are the centre of history - an
unhealthy solipsism that is still encouraged by fundamentalists."

If I am wrong, please show me right here in this thread or
alternatively,
ask me a few questions for more discussion.

But what's the point? You don't understand it. You don't know what
Thierieng does - all you do is like the alternative history she
produces? You are completely incapable of answering the questions most
of us would like to ask. Which in my case - go on, have a go - is...

I hope you don't teach this way if you are indeed an academic.

How, precisely, did Thiering arrive at her rules of pesher?

I am not asking what they are, or what they "reveal". All I want to
know is how she worked out what they were.

The Pesher of Christ - Introduction
http://www.pesherofchrist.infinitesoulutions.com/index2.html

(left pane)
Explaining miracles
Water into wine
The Virgin Birth
The Resurrection
Marriage of Jesus
Church before the Church
The Political Jesus

Why "brilliant", esp. since below you say a merely "bright teenager"
could do it? No, in fact no one has reproduced her "pesher rules" and
it isn't because they aren't understood, its because they don't work for
anoyone except Thiering.

Were we in some seminar, I am afraid you would get ripped to shreds on
your point because it is flatly wrong. If interested, I will show you
in close detail.

I think you need to explain whether it takes a brilliant student or a
bright teenager to apply her method, since you have made both claims.

I decline; please accept the flow of explanation.

Next, explain why no representatives of either group have done so.

Over the course of 10 years no NGer anywhere at any time has ever
accepted my invitation (challenge) to study what my mentor has to
say about Essene calendar.

How do you know?

You don't get it; I was talking about their direct conversation with
me -
so far, no NGer, nobody at all.

I'll put it much stronger - after exhaustive literature research my
electrifying news
is that no scholar in the world even studied her specific scholarly
work on it.

What's so electrifying about that?

Without rules of evidence and integrity the scholarly world would
collapse.
If you wish, substitute surprising for electrifying.

Go figure and don't hesitate to ask me further questions.

You never answer the ones that are asked.

Ian

If you believe that, you were not paying attention.

I believe you to be genuinely puzzled by SOMETHING;
I believe you really need to click/follow my links/leads
and study them hard.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: I will entertain informed questions on Thiering pesher
    ... If Thiering was wrong on her reading of Black's medical dictionary, ... If aloe juice was not used to revive Jesus, the pesher (as ...
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  • Re: Some questions for Christainsen
    ... is followed by a form of "pesher", ... is never the case in the examples Thiering applies her "method" too. ... OT texts being made to refer to actions of Jesus. ... bright teenager to apply her method, since you have made both claims. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: Some questions for Christainsen
    ... Please back up and empty your mind; Dr. Thiering is definitely a trip ... is followed by a form of "pesher", ... rare scholar that has even understood it over the decades, ... bright teenager to apply her method, since you have made both claims. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: Some questions for Christainsen
    ... is followed by a form of "pesher", ... is never the case in the examples Thiering applies her "method" too. ... OT texts being made to refer to actions of Jesus. ... bright teenager to apply her method, since you have made both claims. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: "Thiering Pesher"
    ... One would actually have to get the journal to read the Thiering ... article on authenticating the Letter of Jesus. ... Pending a compelling reason to suppose that Thiering's "pesher" method has ... Subject: For calendar experts ...
    (soc.religion.quaker)
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