Re: The Eastern Roman Empire - not so long ago

Il Tue, 5 Sep 2006 21:20:50 -0700, YahooRefugee ha scritto:

"Basilides" <basilides@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
Il Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:34:45 -0700, YahooRefugee ha scritto:

"Curt Emanuel" <cemanuel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

"YahooRefugee" <bill_larson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
I wonder if anyone can confirm for me the interesting assertion I
the Eastern Romans once called themselves "Romanians", and the country
the Eastern Roman Empire, "Romania".

Well, not exactly. First, Romania is Latin in form, not Greek so that
should give you a big hint.

According to Vasiliev's _History of the Byzantine Empire_ after the 4th
Crusade the Latin conquerers called the Empire Romania. The Greeks never
called themselves that - AFAIK they always called themselves Romans and
their nation the Roman Empire - at least that's how my translation of
Comnena reads which is the latest Greek work I have.

Curt Emanuel
I read some of Comnena's history in English at It is is
weird feeling to read something written by an emperor's daughter from the
twelfth century. You really get a strong feeling for the times, how
they were! Contrast that with modern times. You can see the empire that
Qaeda is trying to create as being simply a follow-up to Islam's and
Arabia's phenomenal successes prior to European colonialism. I would
to re-enter the brutal world of empires again. Yet, we may eventually
no choice if we don't kindle a love of freedom in the Middle East. The
Roman Empire was overtaken by the westward expansion of Asia, but funny
thing is, we can't expand west any more. Our back is against the wall.

After surviving the incessant attacks of the Arabs, following the loss of
Egypt, Syria and Palestine, the Byzantine Empire knew a very terrible
defeat in 1071 at Mazinkiert, Armenia. A true Byzantine Waterloo as they
definitive lost Anatolia which was occupied by the Turks Seljudiks. Asia
Minor began to be called Turkey...
Apparently this was due to the problematic relationship between the
and some relatives...
That defeat... determined the rise of the Turks who also conquered Bagdad
and the Holy Land... So we got the Crusades (1090)...
Weird, but nowadays we are still paying off that Byzantine court
conspiration. If the Greek-Byzantines had won that battle, the Turks were
obliged to go back the their homeland and etc etc...

"Être libre signifie choisir son chemin, et chaque pas peut
changer notre destin - et ceci parfois nous effraye beaucoup"

Well, as you say, the Turks were becoming the major force in Anatolia, even
though other tribes like some Celts had also invaded Anatolia. It is hard
to imagine a single battle changing that fact. Turks were riding the
Mongolian storms from Asia. Everything was moving west, and any power
trying to hold Anatolia was bound to be troubled. Even now the Turks do
their best to keep their position: threatened with losing a piece of their
territory to the Kurds, having to negotiate with their Shiite brothers in
Iran, friends with Israel - all things to all people.

The Turks who occupied the interior of the Anatolian peninsula were not the
same who besieged Bysantium in 1453 so determining the end of the "Roman
Mazinkiert was really a terrible blow to the Byzantine Empire, the worst of
all. I invite you to search on it in Google or whatever.
However more than the military defeat, the Byzantines lacked of internal
cohesion expecially from a religious point of view.
As matter of a fact, their intolerance for a different understanding of
Jesus life, led to a relatively easy conquest of Palestine, Syria and Egypt
by the Arabs in the 7º century. Sicily knew a similar destiny later on in
the 9º century (832 A.D.).
However the Byzantine legacy still survives nowadays. In Southern Italy or
in small towns near Trebizond (Turkish coastal territory bordering
Georgia), people are of Greek (or hellenised at least) descent and
artifacts as well as local dialects are indiscutably Greek...

"Être libre signifie choisir son chemin, et chaque pas peut
changer notre destin - et ceci parfois nous effraye beaucoup"