Re: Most peaceful European city?


Soren Larsen wrote:
sigvald@xxxxxxxx wrote:
Soren Larsen wrote:
sigvald@xxxxxxxx wrote:
Soren Larsen wrote:
sigvald@xxxxxxxx wrote:
Soren Larsen wrote:
sigvald@xxxxxxxx wrote:
Soren Larsen wrote:


snip





I suspect you mean WWI..

Yes, I did, it was a typo.

But declaring neutrality is no guarantee of getting it respected.

No, Denmark had no guarentee for her neutrality, Iceland depended on
Britain as Britain had always made sure (notably during the
Napoleonic wars and the WW1) that no other power did gain control
over Iceland.

I think you will find that Britain cared nada wether Iceland went to
Sweden or Denmark after the Napoleonic war, as long as it didn't
end up within the sphere of another great naval power.

Exactly the same kind of "guarantee" that Denmark had.



Denmark did
not take any responsibility for the defence of Iceland

According to the 1918 treaty Denmark had to guard the Icelandic
coast.

No, Denmark was to provide fisheries patrol for a few years, but it
did not provide any defence.

And the patrols were carried out by the danish navy which
meant that an attack on Iceland likely would trigger an attack on
danish forces

Islandske Falk:
http://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/Skibene/IJ/IslandsFalk_inspektionsskib(1907).htm#Top

Hvidbjørnen:
http://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/Skibene/H/Hvidbjoernen_inspektionsskib(1929-1943).htm

Were the kind of ships used, ie ships designed for both inspection
and
to establish sovereignty.

Not your ordinary coastguard cutters.

Inspektionskibe = coast guard cutters, not warships.

Nope

'Inspektionsskib' is best translated into (light) patrol frigate.

This is the class today (note that there is another Hvidbjørnen there)

http://forsvaret.dk/FRK/Om+FRK/Ressourcer/Inspektionsskib/

I can assure you that the depth charges are not for inspecting
fishingboats. The class is also capable of carrying surface
to air and surface to surface missiles.

'Inspektionsskibe' are warships capable of carrying out peacetime
inspection tasks..


This is the type used for inspecting fishing boats
and other civilian purposes

http://webfd.fd.dk/info/Kontrolfartoejer/Havoernen.htm



And they were in Icelandic waters only for a few summers in the early
1920´s for fisheries patrols, they were not intended for defence
purposes.

If you are having foreign warships patrolling your waters with the task
of inspecting and controlling traffic, you are blessed (or cursed) with a
de facto guarantee.




In case of Iceland 1918, that was the same as taking responcibility
for Icelands territorial integrity.

No, it was only a shore patrol during the summertime.

_All_ routine patrolling in the north atlantic wether the purpose is
inspection
or to maintain soveregnty is carried out during the summer.

No, the Danish navy carries out patrols all year round in Greenland
and
Faroese waters and the Icelandic coast guard is on duty all year
round.


The fishing control vessels certainly are on duty year round.

The 'inspektionsskibe'/patrol ships only patrols during summer
in the north atlantic, since they also go to greenland and in some years
north of greenland.. (These are the ships that sometimes lands patrols
on Hans island leading to the entertaining fuzz with the Canadians)


snip




What happened in 1918 was that Iceland was recognised as a seperate
nation with the right to self determination.

Iceland was declared a fully sovereign nation, section 1 of the
treaty.


And the following clauses outlined the de facto limitations regarding
foreign policy
etc.

Yes, foreign policy to be decided by the Icelandic government but
carried out by Danish officials.

BTW The Danish high court continued to function as Icelandic high
court for a short period after the 1918 treaty.

Yes, the treaty was intended to allow Iceland to equip itself with the
apparatus of state gradually, note that the when the Danish high court
was ruling in Icelandic cases it was crewed, at lest partly, by
Icelandic judges.

The treaty also established the procedure to follow for Iceland to
gain full independence in every respect.

Yes, it is probably not quite correct to say that Iceland was fully
independent in 1918 but full independence in every matter other that
the matter of head of state was gained in the following decade.


I think we are approaching agreement..

This is of course a severe breach of netiquette



The treaty called for consultation with the danish government..

Yes, but even if the Danish government had been consulted the end
result would have been the same.

Indeed.

But fully independent countries are by definition not obligated to
consult foreign powers about internal affairs like eg head of state.

So you do not consider Canada, Australia and New Zealand fully
independant?

20-30 years ago Queen Elizabeth sacked the Prime Minister of Australia.

Frank



I may be wrong, but I am under the impression that these countries could
change their head of state without being obligated by any treaties to
consult
the british government,.and that this goes for all commonwealth countries.



Cheers
Soren Larsen

.

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