Re: origins of Minoan Culture


"o8TY" <o8ty@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:43ede836_1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:NpqdnXVLkJVJSnbeRVnyjw@xxxxxxxxxxxx

"Italo" <olati3@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dsgiq0$agg$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Agamemnon wrote:
>
>>


>>>
>>> At Herodotus 4.45 it says the name Asia is Lydian and that
>>> it is the name of a tribe at Sardis - and Asiës is the son
>>> of Kotys, son of Manes (btw, Manes = Minos?).
>>>
>>
>> [Herodotus 4.45.1] But the boundaries of Europe are quite unknown, and
>> there is not a man who can say whether any sea girds it round either >> on
>> the north or on the east, while in length it undoubtedly extends as >> far
>> as both the other two. For my part I cannot conceive why three names,
and
>> women's names especially, should ever have been given to a tract which
is
>> in reality one, nor why the Egyptian Nile and the Colchian Phasis (or
>> according to others the Maeotic Tanais and Cimmerian ferry) should >> have
>> been fixed upon for the boundary lines; nor can I even say who gave >> the
>> three tracts their names, or whence they took the epithets. According
to
>> the Greeks in general, Libya was so called after a certain Libya, a
>> native woman, and Asia after the wife of Prometheus. The Lydians,
>> however, put in a claim to the latter name, which, they declare, was
not
>> derived from Asia the wife of Prometheus, but from Asies, the son of
>> Cotys, and grandson of Manes, who also gave name to the tribe Asias at
>> Sardis.
>>
>> [Apollodorus. 1.2.3] to Iapetus and Asia was born Atlas, who has the
sky
>> on his shoulders, and Prometheus, and Epimetheus, and Menoetius, he
whom
>> Zeus in the battle with the Titans smote with a thunderbolt and hurled
>> down to Tartarus.
>>
>> Either way Asia dates to 1685 BC in the Greek account whereas in the
>> Lydian account Asies dates to 1610 BC 18 years after the famine cause
by
>> the Thera Erruptsio which caused the Tyrrsenus to migrate to Italy.
Thus
>> the Greek account takes precedence.
>>
>>> In a way this supports the idea that the Dardanians were
>>> Tyrrhenian - Asia/Assuwa was in the area of Taruisa and
>>> Wilusa (although Lukka/Lycia was also part of the
>>> confederacy), while the Tyrrhenians departed from Lydia.
>>
>>
>> No it does not. There were no such things as Tyrrhenians outside of
Italy
>> and Asies was Tyrrsenus cousin.
>
> ..don't you see the contradiction in that?

No. The Tyrrsenoi were named after Tyrrsenus when he arrived in Italy.

>
> Tyrsenos (Etruscan eponym) son of Atys (Attis=lord/father)
> and Asies (eponym of the tribe Asias, after which
> Assuwa/Asia seems named) are both related through Manes..
>
> The god Manes/Men = Minos. Just as Menotyrannus =

Minos was not around until 250 years after Manes.

Manes also = Mars = Ares = Lord


> Minotauros. 'Menotyrannus' -despite that it is only attested
> from the roman period- is probably more original i.e. the
> Greek tauros/tauron ending is just a folketymological
> alteration of tyrannos - (Etruscan 'turan', Luwian
> 'tarwanas', Hebrew 'seren', etc).

There is no such language as Etruscan. You might as well say
Chinese-French-German -Swahili is a language as well if you are going to
say
that it is. The so-called Etruscans i.e. Etrurians were from many
unrelated
tribes.

If they were all descended from Maeonians that came to Italy with
Tyrrsenus
then how come no Etrurian dialect bares any resemblance to Lydian. More
likely that the most common Etrurian dialect was Pelasgian Greek.

Tyrannus also = Tereus = Tegyrius (Thracian) = Lord

>
>
>> [Hdts. 1.94.1] The Lydians have very nearly the same customs as the
>> Greeks, with the exception that these last do not bring up their girls
in
>> the same way. So far as we have any knowledge, they were the first
nation
>> to introduce the use of gold and silver coin, and the first who sold
>> goods by retail. They claim also the invention of all the games which
are
>> common to them with the Greeks. These they declare that they invented
>> about the time when they colonised Tyrrhenia, an event of which they
give
>> the following account. In the days of Atys, the son of Manes, there >> was
>> great scarcity through the whole land of Lydia. For some time the
Lydians
>> bore the affliction patiently, but finding that it did not pass away,
>> they set to work to devise remedies for the evil. Various expedients
were
>> discovered by various persons; dice, and huckle-bones, and ball, and
all
>> such games were invented, except tables, the invention of which they >> do
>> not claim as theirs. The plan adopted against the famine was to engage
in
>> games one day so entirely as not to feel any craving for food, and the
>> next day to eat and abstain from games. In this way they passed
eighteen
>> years. Still the affliction continued and even became more grievous. >> So
>> the king determined to divide the nation in half, and to make the two
>> portions draw lots, the one to stay, the other to leave the land. He
>> would continue to reign over those whose lot it should be to remain
>> behind; the emigrants should have his son Tyrrhenus for their leader.
The
>> lot was cast, and they who had to emigrate went down to Smyrna, and
built
>> themselves ships, in which, after they had put on board all needful
>> stores, they sailed away in search of new homes and better sustenance.
>> After sailing past many countries they came to Umbria, where they >> built
>> cities for themselves, and fixed their residence. Their former name of
>> Lydians they laid aside, and called themselves after the name of the
>> king's son, who led the colony, Tyrrhenians.
>>

The vacating of Lydia may have enabled Minos to capture the Anatolian west
coast without much of a struggle.

Minos I reigned in about 1410 BC. Tyrrhenus migrated to Italy in 1610 BC 18 years after the Thera Eruption.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: origins of Minoan Culture
    ... Asia Minor is a modern corruption of Asie Minos - as in Minos the Kreten ... of Kotys, son of Manes. ... There were no such things as Tyrrhenians outside of Italy and Asies was Tyrrsenus cousin. ... 1.94.1] The Lydians have very nearly the same customs as the Greeks, with the exception that these last do not bring up their girls in the same way. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: origins of Minoan Culture
    ... of Kotys, son of Manes. ... and Asia after the wife of Prometheus. ... Lydian account Asies dates to 1610 BC 18 years after the famine cause ... while the Tyrrhenians departed from Lydia. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: origins of Minoan Culture
    ... Asia Minor is a modern corruption of Asie Minos - as in Minos the Kreten ... of Kotys, son of Manes. ... According to the Greeks in general, Libya was so called after a certain Libya, a native woman, and Asia after the wife of Prometheus. ... There were no such things as Tyrrhenians outside of Italy and Asies was Tyrrsenus cousin. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: origins of Minoan Culture
    ... Have you read Herodotus lately. ... He calls it Asia Minor. ... of Kotys, son of Manes. ... There were no such things as Tyrrhenians outside of Italy ...
    (soc.history.ancient)