Re: Solomon and Jesus
- From: pooua@xxxxxxx
- Date: 2 Dec 2005 21:39:28 -0800
Matt Giwer wrote:
> pooua@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > Martin Edwards wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> >>Ok, but you havne't dealt with the problem. How did the Israelites
> >>manage to spend forty years wandering about in it?
>
> > The same way you could spend 40 years wandering about a room. You would
> > walk in circles, repeatedly. No one said they were lost or crossing new
> > ground. Also, no one said they were travelling at great speeds; how
> > fast do you think a group of several thousand people from the general
> > population, with animals and all their worldly possessions on foot and
> > confronted by occassional combat, could travel? Probably not as fast as
> > a pair of hiking enthusiasts out on a picnic (see previous story of
> > those hikers taking a week to cross the region).
>
> According to Genesis there were enough people to form three parallel lines
> from the Nile Delta to Jerusalem and pass their possessions hand to hand.
That is not what my Bible states.
> But when Israel controlled the Sinai they spent millions looking for the evidence
> of those millions of people wondering the desert for fourty years. They found nothing.
> As it is impossible for millions not to leave evidence after so many decades the
> rational person knows it is a myth.
Troy was not discovered in a day. It wasn't discovered in a century,
for that matter. But, after several thousand years, a lot of things can
be missed.
> >>Surely they would have got somewhere by default in less time than that.
>
> > After Moses and Israel left Egypt,
>
> At the time the begats say Moses left Egypt, Egypt ruled all of the east coast of
> the Med up to the Euphrates.
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
> What do you mean "left" Egypt.
Egypt did not have direct control over the Israelites after they
migrated to the Promised Land.
> > they soon reached the Promised Land,
>
> Said Promised Land ruled by Egypt of course.
Or not, depending on exactly when in history these events took place.
> > not more than a few years later. But, they rebelled against God, so God
> > condemned them to return to the wilderness, to wander it until all of
> > that generation had died, excepting Joshua and Caleb. So, yes, they got
> > somewhere, repeatedly.
>
> And when they finally did get there it was still ruled by Egypt.
You give too little credit to the Hittites (one of the groups that
knocked Egypt on its back very decisively).
> Don't you think that is a rather significant fact omitted from the OT?
I think that Egypt got knocked on its back several times in Asia, even
after it had conquered the area.
> >>How were families supported, when the period represents the growth of an
> >>individual from birth to early middle age?
>
> > They were nomadic; so? Bedouin tribesmen have lived that way for
> > centuries.
>
> Should you ever read your Bible you will notice those people are said to
> have been in Egypt for some four centuries. They were not nomads for those
> four centuries.
I didn't say they were; so what is your point? You yourself admitted
that they were nomads for 40 years! According to Exodus, Moses spent 40
years prior to the Exodus living as a nomad with some Midianites. Why
does it seem so hard for you to believe that a group of people living
in Egypt would have some idea of how to survive in the wilderness?
> Nor does Genesis ever describe them by what we call nomads.
Technically, that is incorrect, in that the Children of Abraham were
nothing but nomads, as described in Genesis. But, that does not appear
to have any bearing on what the Israelites under Moses were.
> Why do you feel you have to make up something?
Why do you feel you have to ignore so much?
> >>How did young men raised in such
> >>circumstances become both formidable soldiers
>
> > Clever military leadership
>
> And they destroyed the armies of Egypt in Palestine and the Egyptians didn't
> quite notice it. How can this be?
Egypt was sent reeling several times by several outside groups. It
wasn't the sort of thing they put on their front pages. In fact, the
Egyptian kings are well-known to have exaggerated their military
exploits and covered up their military defeats. They were some of the
first propagandists. Egyptian accounts of the battle of Kadesh are a
prime example; you wouldn't know it from the Egyptians, but the
Hittites held their own.
> >>and such good physicists
> >>that they understood about resonant frequencies?
>
> > Who said they understood resonant frequencies? That's something you
> > skeptics threw in to explain the walls of Jericho falling when the
> > trumpets sounded.
>
> As arkies
All "arkies"? Some "arkies"? Which "arkies"?
> have found Jericho was abandoned centuries before Joshua
Where did I read that ... ? I know I've read this several times,
before...
"Jericho and its surrounding area is one of the oldest continuously
inhabited sites in the world. On a mount overlooking the Jericho oasis,
excavations have uncovered settlements dating from 9000 BC and the
Oldest Walled Town (7000 BC) yet discovered."
http://www.palguide.com/jericho.htm
"Jericho is one of the world's oldest continuously inhabited sites.
The walls and towers of Jericho are 4000 years older than the pyramids
of Egypt, and the domestication of animals took place 1000 years
earlier in Jericho than in Mesopotamia and Egypt."
http://www.iexplore.com/dmap/Israel/Where+to+Go
"Around 7000 BC, Jericho became the first place in Palestine where
humans built dwellings for themselves and they also built a ten-meter
high wall surround the city. Thus Jericho is considered to be the
oldest continuously inhabited city on earth."
http://www.palestine-un.org/info/hist.html
"Archaeological evidence of human settlement dates back 11,000 years in
the case of the city of Jericho, believed to be the oldest continuously
inhabited settlement in the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea
"One title that seems to be assured is that Jericho is the world's
oldest continuously inhabited city."
http://aboutfacts.net/Ancient17.htm
Say, what does this phrase, "continuously inhabited" mean?
> and it never had anything more than earthen ramparts until much later.
Later than what?
> Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story.
Except that your story isn't very good, but at least it lacks facts.
> >>Is some of this true
> >>and only some of it a fairy tale or is the whole thing a fairy tale?
>
> > The fairy tale is what you are trying to get me to believe. The truth
> > is what Scripture portrays.
>
> Over a century ago the start of archaeology as a science was marked by the
> specific rejection of the OT as historical. It was known over a century ago.
Oxford University does not appear to agree with you:
"Ancient Israel in Sinai: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the
Wilderness Traditions," by James K. Hoffmeier, Professor of Old
Testament and Near Eastern Archaeology, Trinity International
University.
http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/oso/public/content/religion/0195155467/toc.html
> If Jews are smart why isn't Israel ahead of Singapore?
When was the last time that Singapore's neighbors tried to invade her?
If Russians are smart, why isn't Russia ahead of The Netherlands?
If Arabs want Palestinians to have a state so badly, why don't they
cede them some land?
.
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