Re: Do we have non Eusebian evidence that there were Christian Churches prior to 312?

"Martin Edwards" <big_mart_98@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:djti0n$alp$4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> mountain man wrote:
>> "VtSkier" <VtSkier@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:3sdcu0FmvsuhU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>VtSkier wrote:
>>>
>>>>mountain man wrote:
>>>
>>>(snip)
>>>I ended my previous post too soon.
>>>
>>>It seems apparent to me that Constantine's
>>>...contribution... to Christianity was to demand
>>>that there be one Christianity with a central
>>>authority so that he could control it and use it
>>>to keep his subjects in line.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems apparent to me that it is not impossible
>> to speculate that Constantine created christianity
>> (and its history) for pragmatic supreme imperial
>> designs in 312.
>>
> Not impossible, but it's reaching. The delegates were what we translate
> as bishops, and they were already part of an organization of some kind.


Is it reaching to consider the organisation
was the remnant pagan organisation?



> If not, why would Constantine be asking them to agree on anything?

The supreme emperor needs no reasons to do anything.
He does not want to be answerable to the old non Roman
pagan priests and bishops, but he wants their church infra-
structure and network as a base of revenue and administrative
control over his newly won east-west empire.

He has prepared his own new religion in the hiatus period
between him taking Rome in 312 and the eastern empire in
324. The results in Rome are promising, and he is about
to implement it now across the full empire.

He has been trying to do it remotely during this period of
time, and his actions have resulted in the Donatist and
Arian controversies --- reaction against his agenda.
So he means to deal with any dissention.

The first 9 books of Eusbius would like us to believe that
there was a thread of 300 years of history prior to that
council, however I am asking the reader to assume that
this history is in fact an ahistory, and the pagan churchmen
are about to get conscripted into a brand new imperial
religion.

To evaluate the integrity of both of these above histories,
we ask the reader to analyse the words and actions during
the council and thereafter with respect to these two
possibilities of history.


Constantine summons them to the Nicaean council, and opens
with an executive overview over his new religion, but finds only
raised voices and contoversy. He then asks them to write down
their concerns.

He gathers their written concerns, makes a small speech to the
effect that the members of his brethren need to show a united
front on all things pertaining to the new church, and promptly
burns all the written documents.

The emperor wines and dines them all over a period of months,
but does not get all signatures on the Nicaean agreement, which
is a series of twenty two creeds (not just one) concerning the
imperial admin of the new church by which Rome becomes
head office. There were some brave dissenters who refused to
sign on the dotted line.

The Arian controversy and Constantine's implementation of
his christian religion are two sides of the one coin, as per
the Arius POV ... "there was time when he was not".






--
Pete Brown
www.mountainman.com.au




.

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