Re: The original non Indo-European languages of Europe


"Raktizer Omheit" <cequka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:4356d6e6_1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:d8OdnVBBz8TQUsneRVnyiQ@xxxxxxxxxxxx

"Raktizer Omheit" <cequka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:43544177_1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"nandodick" <nandodick@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1129396746.067640.54330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Languages change in a number of ways: words are replaced by entirely
different words, a word shifts in meaning, one grammatical construction
is replaced by another. Much language change is systematic: a certain
sound, in a certain context, changes into another sound in every word
in which it occurs in that context. This is known as sound change, and
the rules that describe the changes are known as sound laws. For
example, Latin /k/ became French /sh/ (spelled <ch>) before the vowel
/a/. Thus, Latin castellum became French chateau, Latin campus became
French champs, Latin captivus became French chetif and so forth.
Languages that have undergone the same sound changes are likely to have
been a single language at the point at which they underwent it.
Interactions among sound changes can tell us the order in which they
occurred.

Although sound change is the main way in which words change over time,
it is also possible for a word to be replaced by an entirely different
word. For example, the Proto-Indo-European word for "dog" was something
like *kuon. (The star indicates that this is a hypothetical form.) We
reconstruct this form from attested (actually recorded) forms like
Greek kuon, Sanskrit shvan, and German hund by asking what proto-form
would yield the attested forms after undergoing the sound changes
observed in the various languages, and also taking into account changes
in word-formation. The direct descendant of this word in English is
hound. But at some point the common Germanic word for "dog" took on a
more specialized meaning and was replaced, as the general term, by dog,
a word whose origin we do not know.

more importantly a language or a whole family of languges it`s
constructed not only by lexicon, but also by grammar and syntax, so
it`s more than just alignate cognetes.

i heard a thousand times the bask-ligur-berber-georgian thesis and it`s
highly controversial, there are very few records of basque previous
tothe 12th century ( i think the official figuere it`s zero), and
Euskera has been contaminated for thousands of years of indo-european
influences.

so despite Dog or Hound it`s has a PIE root, your point it`s valid you
are entitled to believe whatever you want, just don`t be misinforming,
and one more thing the spanish word for DOG=PERRO, it hasn`t a PIE root

DNA tests on prehistoric Iberian and Bsque skeletons has revealed close genetic similarities with those Berber tribes in North Africa who have the least amount of Arabic and Black African ancestry, and neither Basque, Iberian, and Berber are Indo-European languages. 

Utter rubbish.

DNA tests show the exact opposite. The Basques are the most homogenous population in Spain and France and their DNA linage M173 which occurs in 90% of the population has nothing to do with the Berbers who are M35. The Berbers came to Spain in Islamic times and their impact on the language is therefore irrelevant. Their DNA linage only appears in Andalusia and only in traces of 10% or less. It is virtually non existent among the Basques..

And yet other DNA tests show otherwise, but that is not part of your 

No they don't.

agenda now, Agamemnon. Besides, the watery distance across the Strait of Gibraltar is not all that great, in fact it is smaller than the Strait of Dover, and the Berbers invaded Spain twice, once in prehistoric times, before the arrival of the Indo-European speaking Celts, Greeks, Romans, and Visigoths, and again in historical times, i.e. in written, recorded history. Iberian, Basque, and Berber are definitely not Indo-European

And anyone who has read the DNA research papers know perfectly well that the African DNA linage is concentrated solely in people living on the southern tip of Spain and nowhere else. The Basque region of France has not a single trace of this linage, so how can Basque language be connected to this linage when the Basques are the furthest away from this lineages origin and are the least contaminated.

Secondly looking are the Basque numbers it can clearly be seen that half of the are of Semitic origin and the other half are shared with other European lanugages.

speaking languages, and prehistoric skeletons of Iberians and Basques share close genetic similarities with some of the North African Berber tribes.

No they do not. The E-M81 Berber linage is can only be found in traces of less than 5% in northern Spain (and is non existent in French Basques) and in southern Spain it is less than 10%.

You better start looking for a new theory.

Meanwhile I have discovered some more original non Indo-European words.

There are at least two words used for "River" and possibly three.

Greek cognates: pond, puddle, pool, potamos
Latin cognates:  fluvium, flood?, fleuve
Romance cognates: rivettare, river, rio (Spanish)

There are at least two words used for "Sea"

Greek cognates: tide, thalatta, thalassa, sea
Greek cognates: ocean, okeanos, gialos?

Finaly I have found out that the Italian word for "Door" could only have originated from a compound Greek word so there is no need for proto-Indo-Europeans there.

Portello, port, puerta is a corruption of Parathyro which means "Beside the Door". Therefore the word Door a corruption of Thyra refers to the wooden thing that opens and closes and the term port refers to the opening. And this brings me to anther possible original non Indo-European words for Window.

English cognates: Window, ventana (Spanish),
Italian cognates: Finestra, fenetre, fenster (German), fenster (Dutch)




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Relevant Pages

  • Re: The original non Indo-European languages of Europe
    ... Much language change is systematic: a certain sound, in a certain context, changes into another sound in every word in which it occurs in that context. ... Basque, Iberian, and Berber are Indo-European languages. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: The original non Indo-European languages of Europe
    ... Much language change is systematic: a certain sound, in a certain context, changes into another sound in every word in which it occurs in that context. ... and Berber are Indo-European languages. ... DNA tests show the exact opposite. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: The original non Indo-European languages of Europe
    ... >>> sound, in a certain context, changes into another sound in every word ... >>> Languages that have undergone the same sound changes are likely to have ... >> Basque, Iberian, and Berber are Indo-European languages. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
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