Re: Did Homer not write the Homeric Hymns?


"Italo" <olati3@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:dgneng$ogb$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Agamemnon wrote:

"Italo" <olati3@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:dgm4ub$qvi$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

alanmc95210@xxxxxxxxx wrote:


The Achaeans first attacked Teuthrania, which was a mistake
or didn't go too well and after that the fleet is scattered;
(going on raids?)

After time they gather again at Aulis. It is unclear how much time lapsed between this 2nd try and the 'ninth year' of the Iliad.


It was 2 years that lapsed after Helens abducted when the first gathering at Autlis took place and 8 years after that was the second gathering. See Apollodorus epitopme.

Troy fell in the 10th year. If was counted from the first gathering at Aulis then it would imply that the siege of Ilion, and the sacking of the 23 cities by Achilles, took place during the remaining one, or two, years.

If the later editors considered an "original" Homer to have lived in the 12th century BC, then they may have scrapped authentic Homeric passages also.
Homer may have lived in the late 8th to mid 7th century.


No his did not. If he did then he would have lived at the time of the Olympiads.

Would that be a problem? There is of course the incription

Of course it would be a problem. If Homer lived during the Olympiads then he would have lived AFTER most Hesiodic writers and the writers of the Homeric Hymns who are dated during this period and would have been contemporary with first or second Messenian War which is both linguistically impossible and historically impossible.


of the "Nestor cup", from about 730 BC - but then I take it that the stories were known before Homer put them in alphabetic writing.

Both Homer and Hesiod lived before the Olympiads and at least 400 years before Herodotus.

If Homer had as source material texts written in linear-B, as opposed to oral transmitted stories only (which don't preserve archaic peculiarities nor long _accurate_ lists), then he could be mistaken to be as old as the content of his writings.

There is NO SUCH THING as oral transmission of anything. Oral traditions are unsubstantiated SCIENCE FICTION invented by Parry in 1930.

Over 200 Greek City states had histories concerning over 10,000 kings and heroes all related to each other dating to before, during and after the time of Homer. Were they all orally transmitted. Was there a huge conspiracy to make them all up. No of course not. It is NONSENSICAL to believe that anything of the kind was even possible. All the histories were transmitted by writing and depicted true events.

Why would anyone even attempt to communicate a work the size of the Illiad orally (and thousands of other contemporary works) when writing had existed for centuries without interruption.


There are a set of elaborations on (presumed) geography in the Odyssey, which, from the context, clearly do not belong to the original story. Yet, as they were not cut out by the later editors, it would seem that these were present in all early editions of the Odyssey. Meaning that Homer himself added them.

Now as one of these sections (11.14) mentions the Cimmerians (their homeland being located on the the Ocean, in the far north apparently; on the Baltic sea?), it would depend on when the Cimmerians became first known to the Greeks.

The Cimmerians were known to the Greeks by at least 1077 BC according to Jerome when they invaded Asia together with the Amazons so there is no reason why they could not have been known at the time of the Odyssey which dates to 100 years earlier.



Their migration south may have started around 750 BC. They defeated Midas' Phrygians around 675, and Sardis taken in 644.


Different incursion. 

.

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