Re: ‘John ' William baillyf Ryvel' of Bukkeby’ named in an Oyer and Terminer

On May 7, 3:24 pm, Mike Clifford <m.cliff...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In 1347 a ‘William Ryvel of Bukkeby’ is named in an ‘Oyer and terminer’ that also refers to ‘John ' William baillyf Ryvel' of Bukkeby’, available athttp://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e3v7/body/Edward3vol7page0468.pdfas follows:

‘Commission of oyer and terminer to Roger Hillary, Thomas de Bukton, Henry de Grene and Nicholas de Vieleston, on complaint by Joan late the wife of Ralph Basset of Drayton that William Ryvel of Bukkeby, John ' Williambaillyf Ryvel' of Bukkeby, Thomas Waleys, John de Shelton, Henry Bussel, William Shephurd, John Mody and others broke her close at Bukkeby and entered her free chace there, hunted in the chace, and fished in her stews there, carried away fish therefrom with other of her goods as well as hares, rabbits, partridges and pheasants from the warren and assaulted her servant, Nicholas le Waryner, whereby she lost his service for a great time. By fine of 1 mark paid to the clerk of the hanaper. Northampton’.

Can anyone suggest wht exactly is the significance of the rather strange phrasing "John ' Williambaillyf Ryvel'"?  Is it implying that John Revell is William revell's bailiff or is just a case that the original document had been corrected, with some text inserted?

This William Revell was born in the period 1305 to 1325 and he does have a son John Revell, but John was not born until about 1345 to 1347.  William revell's cousin John Revell is probably a better candidate.

Thanks,

Mike

You often see constructions like 'John Williambaillyf Ryvel' in the
records of the royal courts in the 14th and 15th centuries, though I
don't think I've ever come across them anywhere else - they seem to be
just a legal usage. They are always applied to servants, apparently
to servants who themselves lacked surnames and were known instead by
their occupational relationship to their employer, though I have
always suspected that, in the 15th century at least, the individuals
concerned did in fact have hereditary surnames of their own and that
this unusual style was just a legal convention. Perhaps it was used
when the individual's surname was not known to the lawyer or court
clerk who drew up the record.

Though occasionally you see examples when the servant's true surname
is also given. For example in 1374 suits were brought in Common Pleas
by the prior of Fordham against a man called 'Stephen Badercours
Thomasseruant Offord' (ie Stephen Badercours, servant of Thomas
Offord) and by Thomas Hichecokesson against John Geke, Katherine
Ellesworth, widow of George Ellesworth, and 'Henry Orewelle that was
Georgesseruant of Ellesworth'. The latter is an example of a rather
odd inverted syntax which you occasionally come across, meaning 'who
used to be the servant of George Ellesworth'.

Anyway, this particular example means William the bailiff of John
Ryvel. It must be doubtful whether he is a relation of his employer.

Matt Tompkins
.

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