Re: C.P. Addition: New death date for Isabel de Vermandois, Countess of Meulan and Leicester

On Oct 24, 11:15 am, Douglas Richardson <royalances...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

There are good accounts of Isabel (or Elizabeth) de Vermandois, the Ur-
Mother of the newsgroup, in Complete Peerage, 7 (1929): 523-526 (sub
Leicester) and 12(1) (1953): 495-496 (sub Surrey).  Isabel was
successively wife of Robert de Beaumont, Count of Meulan in the French
Vexin (died 5 June 1118), and William de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey
(died probably 11 May 1138).  She had issue by both of her marriages.
Her descendants are legion.

In the Leicester account in C.P., pg. 526, footnote d, the following
information is given regarding the death date of Isabel de Vermandois:

"Her obit was observed at St. Nicaise-de-Meulan on 17 Feb, (H.F.,
Quarto, Obituaires de la Prov. de Sens, vol. iii, p. 238 E.)."  END OF
QUOTE.

In the Surrey account in C.P., pg. 496, and footnote h, the following
information is given regarding her death date:

"She died probably before July 1147 .... [She died] before her son,
William [de Warenne], 3rd Earl [of Surrey], went on crusade in June
1147; see Early Yorkshire Charters, vol. viii, pp. 9, 91.  On 17 Feb.,
according to the obituary of St, Nicaise (Recueil des Chartes de Saint-
Nicaise-de-Meulan, ed. Houth, p. 192).  END OF QUOTE.

The obit for Countess Isabel recorded at the Priory of Saint-Nicaise
de Meulan is confirmed by Molinier, Obituaires de la Province de Sens,
2 (1906): 238, which gives the following:

   Obituaire of Prieuré de Saint-Nicaise de Meulan

   Isabel, comitissa Mellenti, XIIIo kal. Martii [17 February].  END
OF QUOTE.

The above item may be viewed at the following weblink:

   http://books.google.com/books?id=TvUoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA238

Recently, however, I encountered yet another obit for Isabel de
Vermandois dated 13 February recorded in the obituaire of Longpont
Priory, which item was published in Molinier, Obituaires de la
Province de Sens 1(1) (Recueil des Historiens de la France, Obituaires
1) (1902): 521:

   Prieuré de Longpont

   “idus Februarius [13 February] [obit.] Isabel, comitissa de Garenna
[1199].  END OF QUOTE..

The above item may be viewed at the following weblink:

   http://books.google.com/books?id=agMjAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA521

The modern editor, Molinier, has assigned a death date of 1199 for
Isabel, Countess of Warenne, which is a manifest error.  The only
other Isabel, Count of Warenne, in this time period was Isabel de
Vermandois' own granddaughter, Isabel de Warrenne, who was living
April 1203, but probably died soon afterwards, possibly 12 July 1203
[see Complete Peerage, 12(1) (1953): 500 (sub Surrey)].

That the obit for Isabel, Countess of Warenne, dated 13 February at
Longpont Priory is in fact for Isabel de Vermandois (and not that of
her granddaughter) is confirmed by the inclusion of another obit in
the same obituary at Longpont Priory for Isabel de Vermandois' second
husband, William de Warenne:

Source: Molinier, Obituaires de la Province de Sens 1(1) (Recueil des
Historiens de la France, Obituaires 1) (1902): 524:

Prieuré de Longpont:

   v. idus. Maius. [11 May] [obit.] Guillermus, comes de Garenna.  END
OF QUOTE.

The above item may be viewed at the following weblink:

   http://books.google.com/books?id=agMjAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA524

I'm not certain why this second obit for Isabel de Vermandois was
overlooked by Complete Peerage, but it evidently has been previously
noticed.  I found the following statement in Walker, Wakefield: Its
History and People (1934): 52:

“Countess Isabel died February 13th, 1131, and the Earl followed her
seven years later, on May 11th, 1138.  Both were buried in the chapter
house of Lewes priory.”).   END OF QUOTE.

Wakefield and other sources give 1131 as the death year for Isabel de
Vermandois which date may be correct.  Whatever the year, it would
appear that Isabel de Vermandois died on 13 (or 17) February, as
indicated by the records cited above.

Perhaps someone on the newsgroup can address the evidence which
indicates the year, 1131, as the year of death for Isabel de
Vermandois.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

I seem to have multiple descents through son William (Percy, Neville,
Stafford), daughter Ada (Brittany, Bohun, Orkney, Galloway, Bruce,
Hastings, Crawford, &, of course, your William the Lion (Ferrers, Ros,
Dunbar), daughter Gundred & two husbands (Beaumont, Verdun, Mauduit,
Lancaster, Lea, Morville, Bruce, Lindsay), son Reginald (Bardolf), and
daughter Isabel (Fitzroy-Chilham, Strathbougle, Balliol, Marmion,
Berkeley, Eu, Lusignan, Bohun). I do my work the old-fashioned way, by
hand. Since I don't have software for it, I will prowl through these
lines to find as many 17th century descents as I can & send them on.
Best, Bronwen
.

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