Re: Gilbert de Lascy son of Robert de Lascy



On Jun 25, 10:57 am, paul bulkley <designecono...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Wightman and other sources suggest that Robert de Lascy had no children at the time of his death 1193
at Clitheroe. However Charter records of Chapel St John Pontefract V1 and other sources suggest that
Gilbert de Lascy was probably Robert's son as follows:

1190 Gilbert de Lascy son of Robert de Lascy grants a bovat land in Barneby and 2 bovat in Harewood
Witness: Robert Lascy et alia.
Note: Dodsworth questions the possibility that this Gilbert is not the son of Robert but of another Lascy
line.
1190 Henry Vernoil of Kellington grants to Gilbert Lascy and the monks of Pontefract
1190 Robert de Lascy confirms 2 bovats Great Marsden. Witness Gilbert de Lascy et alia
1192 Thomas Presibiter de Harewood grants to Gilbert de Lascy 2 bovats in Harewood.
Witness: Hospitatis Gospatric de Salesburi, son Roger Salesburi

Further records from other sources suggest the possibility that Gilbert de Lascy was the first Lascy of
Cromwellbotham:

1160/1170 Gilbert de Lascy (Cestria) - first Lascy of Cromwellbotham.
1180 Gilbert de Lascy witness to Charter Robert son of Hugh Swillington (Slepehill)
1190 Gilbert de Lascy witness to Charter of Jordan Foliot,
1190 Gilbert de Lascy (Horton) and Gilbert de Lascy (Lanc) witnesses to Charter of Hugh Prior Pontefract
1210 Roger Lascy enfeoffed Gilbert de Lascy of Cromwellbotham in the marriage with Agnes.
(History of Lancashire V1)
1200s Gilbert de Lascy of Cromwellbotham held 1/6th Fee Rochdale lordship in the right of wife Agnes
de Owram (Farrer Early York)
Note: The 1210 record probably applies to a later generation of the Gilbert de Lascy being considered.

Perhaps the most significant record pertinent to Gilbert de Lascy's relationship to Robert de Lascy is the
1190 Charter of Hugh Prior of Pontefract to which  two Gilberts were recorded as witnesses -
Gilbert de Lascy of Horton and Gilbert de Lascy of Lanc.

Also what is also significant is that the legend of Robert Buckley rector of chapel of Clitheroe at the time of
the death of Robert de Lascy makes no mention of heirs. However if Robert de Lascy had a son Gilbert who
died before his father, there would be no mention of Gilbert. Robert Buckley's father was Geoffrey Dean of
Whalley with at least two or three earlier generations acting as Dean of Whalley. It has been suggested that
Robert Buckley was related to the Lascy family through an earlier connection.

Has anyone further thoughts?

Paul Bulkley

==========================


Saturday, 26 June, 2010


Dear Paul,

This is extremely interesting. As I have it, C. T. Clay made a
good case for the strong possibility that Gilbert de Lacy was an
illegitimate son of Robert de Lacy, who definitely d.s.p.l. His
article on The Family of Lacy of Cromwellbottom and Leventhorope (iin
Miscellanea of the Thoresby Society, XXVIII:468-490, is a must read.

Despite Dodsworth's concerns, this mention of a charter of
Gilbert de Lascy as son of Robert de Lascy _and_ his granting 2
bovates in " Harewood " is I think quite important. This was most
likely Great Harwood ("Harewude" in early documents), re: which there
is charter evidence linking the land to the Lacy family of
Pontefract. Henry de Lacy granting the manro of Great Harwood to
Richard Fiton for knight's service, and this was confirmed by Henry's
son Robert ca. 1180 to hold by the service of 1/4 of a knight's fee
[VCH Lancs. 6:337-344]. I lose any subsequent mention of the
overlordship of Harwood, but think you have found evidence that this
land or a portion of same was given to "Gilbert de Lascy son of Robert
de Lascy".

I would be very interested in further information re: the charter
in question cited by Dodsworth. Many thanks for bringing this to the
group's attention!

Cheers,

John
.



Relevant Pages

  • Gilbert de Lascy son Robert de Lascy
    ... Subscriber advised that C.T.Clay claimed that Gilbert de Lascy of Cromwellbotham ... was the illigitimate son of Robert de Lascy. ... Gilbert of Cromwellbotham ancestry is the son of Henry de Lascy father of Robert ...
    (soc.genealogy.medieval)
  • Gilbert de Lascy son of Robert de Lascy
    ... Gilbert de Lascy was probably Robert's son as follows: ... 1190 Gilbert de Lascy son of Robert de Lascy grants a bovat land in Barneby and 2 bovat in Harewood ... 1180 Gilbert de Lascy witness to Charter Robert son of Hugh Swillington ...
    (soc.genealogy.medieval)
  • Lacy of Pontefract
    ... I have set out part pedigree of the Lacy of Pontefract ... Robert de Lascy Ilbert and Hawise ... 1122 Robert de Lascy became Dean of Whalley ...
    (soc.genealogy.medieval)