Re: Ctss Milia wife of ct Gomez González [de Manzanedo]


So we already have a problem here: The one who is supposed to be
Count Gómez González's father (Gonzalo Rodríguez) signs as tenente
already in 1168 and, as mentioned above, is not a count until 1175.
Andhis “supposed” son Count Gómez Glz is already a tenente in
Calahorra in 1158, that is, 10 years before his “father”. .

Until now we agree.
Not only for that but also because they do not have the same
tenencias. Count Gómez never had Bureba and count Rodrigo never had
Castilla Vieja and these were the most important they held. Also count
Rodrigo has properties in and around Bureba while Gómez is not seen in
Bureba but in Campoo. I would say that they were not closed related
and their relationship, if any, was through the Laras.
What first happened - I think - is Salazar y Castro identifying Milia,
Gómez wife as Manrique but I could never find his evidence to decide
she was a Lara. Later, Martínez Díaz, based in documents, found that
Manrique de Lara had no daughter Milia but had a sister Milia, and
concluded that Gómez González had married Manrique's sister. He had no
evidence that she was a Lara and he did not questioned the point, just
substituted an inexistent Milia by a possible Milia.
But later was found a donation of Sancho III in 1268 to a countess
Milia wife of count Gonzalo. This count Gonzalo is not yet identified
but it is not of Bureba, only identified as count after 1173. So we
are left with two Milias, one of them sister of Manrique de Lara, the
other one ignored.
Short of documents we have to observe other indicia.
If there is a general frame for this genealogies as published some
centuries later, it's the concocted royal agnatic ancestry immediately
followed by connections to the quasi royals Laras. Salazar y Castro is
the most sigificative and the later reconstruction of these families,
with Moxó and Salazar y Acha also as good examples, has a lot of
agnatic royals found cognatic and reproved Laras. Thus I don't put
much weight on Salazar y Castro's assertion that Milia was a Lara.
Also, while Gonzalo of Bureba evidentiates a clear relation with the
Laras, holding tenencias and properties in the Lara's area of
influence, Gómez relation is not clear in this point; if not for Milia
being thought a Lara we couldn't place him in the Lara's orbit.
Then, observing Gómez course, we see that he was mayordomo to Sancho
III between Mar.1157 and Oct.1158, when Sancho died. Probably he lost
some quality with Sancho's death and passed to León *probably atracted
by the Castros against the Laras* as hypothized by Júlio González and
undirectly corroborated as he became mayordomo to Fernando II Oct.1164
to Jun.1165 substituting the Castro.
With this data, I guess Todd would say: we don't know. But I say that
more probably, Gómez Gonzáles 'el Castellano' (nickname he got in
León's documentation to distinguish him of Gómez González de Traba)
was married to an ignored Milia and that Milia Pérez, was married to
an ignored count Gonzalo.

Regards,
Francisco
(Portugal)




On 26 Ago, 21:59, Brianda <gonzalezmore...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I think the big problem here is that Count Gómez “El Castellano”
González (Manzanedo) is not the son of Count Gonzalo Rodríguez
(Salvadores) and Countess Elvira Ramírez, and I really don’t know who
his father was.

If we go back a couple of generations, we have Count Rodrígo Gómez and
Countess Elvira Ramírez,  The first time I have them confirmed as
married is in 1137 (Oña).   They are definitely the parents of Count
Gonzalo Rodríguez who appears, for example in 1168, 1170 as tenente in
Bureba and is not a count until 1175.   The last mention I have of
Count Gonzalo is in 1202 (Huelgas) where he declares that he is the
son of Count Rodrigo Gómez.

Count Gómez “El Castellano” González (Manzanedo) in Colección
Diplomática Riojana, appears as Dominante Calahorra in 1158, 1161,
from 1165 to 1171, and “cum sua muliere domna Milia in 1172”.

So we already have a problem here:  The one who is supposed to be
Count Gómez  González's father (Gonzalo Rodríguez) signs as tenente
already in 1168 and, as mentioned above, is not a count until 1175.
Andhis  “supposed” son Count Gómez Glz is already a tenente in
Calahorra in 1158, that is, 10 years before his “father”. .

Actually, they seem more contemporaries than father and son.

If we assume then, that Count Gómez is not the son of Count Gonzalo
Rodríguez, and that count Gómez is already attesting in 1158 as
tentente in Calahorra, then there is no problem with his marriage to
Milia Pérez de Lara, daughter of Count Pedro Glz and Countess Ava.

…..
«Gomez Gonzalvez's father was that Gonzalvo, apparently of the dynasty
of Manzanedo, who was himself attested in 1114.»
…..
I don’t think that is the case, that Count Gonzalo Rodríguez
(Salvadores) was already attested in 1114 since, as mentioned above,
his last mention alive is in Huelgas in 1202.

Regards
Mara

.

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